The Encounter Architecture: UFOs, DMT & Every Encounter Tradition

What if UFO encounters, near-death experiences, mystical visions, shamanic journeys, and DMT experiences aren't separate phenomena at all?

What if they're describing the same underlying architecture?

In this episode of Fortean Winds, RamX presents the findings from an original comparative research paper examining thousands of encounter reports spanning centuries of human history.

Drawing on peer-reviewed research, historical accounts, UFO case literature, neuroscience, religious experience, and clinical studies of DMT, this episode explores an unexpected convergence across independent traditions.

Despite differences in culture, belief, geography, and historical era, witnesses consistently report:

• autonomous intelligences
 • direct thought-to-thought communication
 • environments described as "more real than reality"
 • profound personal transformation
 • encounters that permanently alter worldview

Rather than arguing for a single explanation, Fortean Winds asks a simpler—and perhaps more important—question:

Why do independent experiences produce the same structure?

This episode explores what RamX calls The Encounter Architecture—a recurring pattern that appears across UFO encounters, near-death experiences, mystical states, folklore, and DMT research.

If the similarities are real...

What are they actually pointing toward?

Companion Article

The Encounter Architecture: DMT, UAP and the Pattern Connecting Every Encounter Tradition

https://forteanwinds.com/2026/07/06/the-encounter-architecture-dmt-uap-and-the-pattern-connecting-every-encounter-tradition/

Transcript

00;00;00;08 - 00;00;26;21
Unknown
I want to read you three descriptions. Three different people, three completely different circumstances. First, a UAP witness. Close encounter, 1975. There was a being present. It didn't speak. The communication was instantaneous. Complete thoughts fully formed. Arriving directly. I was in a space that felt more real than the room I was standing in. When it was over, I was different.

00;00;26;21 - 00;00;58;18
Unknown
I have never been the same person since. Second, a near-death experience or hospital cardiac arrest. 2003 I encountered presences, intelligences that communicated without language. I was somewhere that was more vivid, more real than anything I had experienced. I returned changed at a level I don't have words for. Third, a DMT study participant clinical Setting, published in a peer reviewed survey of 2561 subjects in 2020.

00;00;58;23 - 00;01;31;24
Unknown
I entered a space that already existed before I arrived. There were beings there. They communicated directly, not in words, in complete understandings. The reality of it exceeded anything in ordinary life. I have not been the same since three accounts, separated by decades, by context, by every variable that should produce different reports one description autonomous intelligence. Non-verbal communication. Alternate environment perceived as more real than ordinary reality.

00;01;31;26 - 00;01;47;10
Unknown
Lasting transformation. That's not coincidence. That's a pattern. And after diving into the literature, I found it to be more coherent than I expected it to be.

00;01;47;13 - 00;02;16;27
Unknown
Welcome to the Fortean Winds podcast, where we talk about high strangeness and the war for perception. I'm Bones and with us, as always, is RamX. Hey. Hey, everybody. Hey, Ram. So today's topic is dance, and it's because rom wrote a paper for it. Yeah, well, the topic was dense before I wrote the paper and we'd been off for a month, and so it did take a while to write all this up.

00;02;16;27 - 00;02;41;16
Unknown
I think I've mentioned a few times that I've been reading about it, and I've been reading about it for years, so I was kind of ready to to write up my thoughts about it, and I just had to figure out a way to say something material about the subject. So I wrote something to the level of a scientific paper that I would submit for publishing, and I might do that.

00;02;41;17 - 00;03;09;07
Unknown
So that was kind of the process. I wrote a paper, bones was my peer review, and the full title is The Convergence of Encounter Phenomena A Comparative Analysis of UAP encounters, Paranormal experiences, Near-Death experiences, mystical states, and DMT induced entity contact. I'll summarize it all later on. 14 witness. Yeah, it's it's a there's a lot there. It's impressive man.

00;03;09;08 - 00;03;33;14
Unknown
It's good stuff. But why a paper before an episode. Because this kind of topic that has a gravity to it. People hear DMT and UFOs and they immediately go one of two directions. Either it's all hallucinations and nothing is real, or it proves that DMT is a portal to another dimension and the entities are definitely aliens. Both of those responses are moving faster than the evidence justifies.

00;03;33;15 - 00;03;53;21
Unknown
I wanted to build the framework carefully before I opened my mouth on the podcast, because once we're on the mic, it's easy to say something sloppy, and I don't want to do that with this material. It's extremely dense. Right, right. And shout out to 14 peat, whose first suggested the topic and kept me motivated in order to do it.

00;03;53;24 - 00;04;25;03
Unknown
Yeah. Right on. So what's the central question the paper is asking? Simple question. Genuinely hard to answer. Why do individuals separated by culture, history, belief system and circumstance, people who have never met, who have never been exposed to each other's accounts, who encountered their experiences under completely different conditions, repeatedly described the same encounter, the same entities, the same communication style, the same quality of alternate reality, the same transformation afterward.

00;04;25;04 - 00;04;48;24
Unknown
Why does the 14th century mystic, a 1973 UAP abductee, a contemporary clinical DMT subject, and a Siberian shaman all end up describing what sounds like the same event? Oh, right. So that's the encounter architecture. That's what I'm calling it. And tonight we're going to walk through what I found. All right. So let's start with DMT itself. You know start at the ground level.

00;04;48;26 - 00;05;25;13
Unknown
All right. DMT dimethyl tryptamine. Before anyone makes assumptions about what kind of episode this is. DMT is not primarily a street drug, although you may often most hear about it in that context. It is an endogenous compound. Your body produces it. It has been detected in human blood, urine, and cerebrospinal fluid. Its present in the pineal gland. It occurs naturally in hundreds of plant species around the world, which is why cultures on multiple continents independently developed preparations like ayahuasca, using plants that they couldn't have learned about from one another.

00;05;25;19 - 00;05;51;04
Unknown
There were similar DMT inducing things in Egypt. Ancient Egypt found is going back many, many years, right? So it's not a foreign substance? Yeah. That's the first thing that needs to land when you smoke or synthesize DMT or drink ayahuasca, you're not introducing something alien to your biochemistry. You're concentrating and amplifying a compound that the brain already works with.

00;05;51;09 - 00;06;16;23
Unknown
The question of why the brain producing it, what its natural function is, is not really settled. Rick Strassman is the researcher probably most associated with DMT studies, and he ran the first federally approved clinical DMT research at the University of New Mexico in the 1990s. He hypothesized that the brain releases significant quantities at moments of extreme physiological stress, including the dying process.

00;06;16;25 - 00;06;45;10
Unknown
Now that is contested. It hasn't been definitively confirmed in humans on like clinical scales, and I want to be precise about that, because the hypothesis exists in the peer reviewed literature and the architecture of DMT experiences and near-death experiences is so similar that researchers take it seriously enough to publish it. Right, right. I mean, it's you know, DMT is definitely is becoming more discussed.

00;06;45;11 - 00;07;12;07
Unknown
And it's, you know, in modern research obviously too. But you know, tell us about, you know, the scale of it because I think people don't realize how much data actually exists on them. This is what changed my thinking when I first started going through the literature. Seriously. And we're not talking about anecdote papers, scientific papers, two studies from the evidentiary backbone of the paper that I wrote, Davis published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology.

00;07;12;09 - 00;07;48;29
Unknown
It was a survey of 2561 people who reported DMT entity encounters not unusual feelings, not visual distortions, entity encounters, intelligent beings. You know, that is the largest systemic study of this type of experience in the scientific literature at the time of publication, the Lawrence study from Nature Scientific Reports had 3778 encounter reports, and they were systematically classified by entity, type, environment, communication method and after effects.

00;07;48;29 - 00;08;26;20
Unknown
So we're not talking about a blog. Right, right. It's pretty cool. So I mean, what does it all show? It's consistent across both data sets and consistent with the broader clinical literature. That's going back to Strassman. The overwhelming majority of participants report encountering apparently autonomous intelligent entities like not visual noise, not abstract patterns, not amplified emotions. They were like beings perceived as conscious, independent of the experiences on mind, and they seemed to possess agency.

00;08;26;22 - 00;08;53;28
Unknown
The participants didn't report imagining a scene they report entering one. Many describe the distinct impression that the environment they entered existed before they arrived, and would continue after they left. Some described the beings as welcoming them. Others described the being examining them or instructing them. The consistent element across thousands of independent accounts is not the appearance of the entities.

00;08;54;04 - 00;09;22;19
Unknown
That varies considerably, but that the Haverhill profile autonomous, communicative, aware of the witness. Right? Yeah, but I mean, so stop there because, I mean, what are we claiming then, you know. Right. So this is important, right? We're we're not arguing that DMT proves UAP encounters are real in a physical sense. It doesn't argue that DMT entities are extraterrestrial.

00;09;22;20 - 00;09;47;25
Unknown
What it argues, and what I'm prepared to defend in the data, is that the experience structure of a DMT encounter is consistent with the experience structure across five other encounter domains. The pattern of how the experience is reported is the same whether the underlying cause is identical across domains. That. That's a separate question. Not going to get into it.

00;09;47;26 - 00;10;23;05
Unknown
The data currently can't answer it. I'm making a phenomenal logical argument here. Not about not about a physical one. Hold that distinction. It matters throughout. Right, right. So let's get into the architecture of it all. So the paper compared six domains UAP, close encounters and contact narratives, alien abduction accounts, paranormal and apparitions experiences, near-death experiences, shamanic traditions across multiple cultures, and DMT and psychedelic encounter studies.

00;10;23;06 - 00;11;05;19
Unknown
I built a comparative matrix. I'll put that on the website along with the summary article. There are 16 characteristics. Each domain I rated on a scale from zero to 3 or 4, based on how consistently that characteristic appeared in the documented literature. Okay, so what's that show then? Well, the cleanest result is this certain characteristics score all the way up to four, which would mean strongly recurrent across every single domain simultaneously autonomous entities transformation after the experience emotional intensity or and reverence encounter with intelligence that's perceived as external to the self.

00;11;05;25 - 00;11;36;06
Unknown
Every domain zero variation the second tier telepathic communication information transfer alternate realm or environment. Hyperreality. Time distortion. These score 2 or 3 across all six domains. Nowhere does communication without language fail to appear as a significant feature. Nowhere does the alternate environment fail to appear. Nowhere does the lasting transformation fail to appear. Right, right. Yeah, that caught me.

00;11;36;06 - 00;12;08;10
Unknown
So you know what? Let's I'm going to read that part from the paper because because I think it's important. So let me find it. And here we go. So it's first nearly every encounter category contains reports involving apparently autonomous intelligences, whether interpreted as spirits, guys, extraterrestrials, ancestors, luminous beings or entities encountered in altered states, the perception of intelligence and agency appears with remarkable consistency.

00;12;08;18 - 00;12;45;14
Unknown
Second, communication without ordinary language is one of the most frequently reported characteristics across all encounter domains. Experiencers repeatedly described direct knowing telepathy, conceptual transfer, or instantaneous understanding. Third, reports often involve entry into environments perceived as distinct from ordinary reality. These environments may be interpreted as spiritual realms, alternative dimensions, inhabited worlds, or symbolic landscapes, yet the experiential structure remains strikingly similar.

00;12;45;17 - 00;13;23;10
Unknown
Fourth, altered perceptions of time and space appear throughout the literature missing time, expanded duration, instantaneous travel, and unusual, unusual spatial experiences occur repeatedly across encounter traditions. That's pretty cool. And then finally, and perhaps most importantly, transformation appears as one of the most universal consequences of encounter experiences. Across nearly every category examined, individuals frequently report enduring changes in worldview values, spirituality, personal identity, and attitudes toward death.

00;13;23;13 - 00;13;50;11
Unknown
So, taken individually, none of these characteristics is unique. Collectively, however, they form a reoccurring pattern that appears throughout multiple encounter literatures. The consistency of this pattern suggests that the similarities among encounter experiences extend beyond isolated antidotes, and may instead represent a recognizable.

00;13;50;13 - 00;13;53;09
Unknown
Structure.

00;13;53;12 - 00;14;24;24
Unknown
Some big words there I can't get out smoothly. Let me. I'm going to do that last paragraph. So take an individually. None of these characteristics is unique. Collectively, however, they form a reoccurring pattern that appears throughout multiple encounter literatures. The consistency of this pattern suggests that the similarities among encounter experiences extend beyond isolated anecdotes, and may instead represent a recognizable phenomenological structure.

00;14;24;26 - 00;14;51;11
Unknown
I mean, the only thing that changes is the interpretation. It's it's really good stuff. Thanks, man. That's the key observation. And I want to make it. Clearly the antes in a medieval European encounter are called fairies. The entities and a classic shamanistic Germany are called ancestor spirits or animal intelligences. The entities in a 1973 objection narrative are called extraterrestrials.

00;14;51;17 - 00;15;23;29
Unknown
Entities in a 2019 study are called machine Els. Insectoid guides. The entities in a near-death experience are called deceased relatives or beings of light. Like the clothing changes, the names change. The cultural interpretation is completely different. Each time the behavior doesn't change, they communicate. Without language. They convey complete information like instantaneously. They are perceived as external. They're autonomous.

00;15;24;05 - 00;15;53;18
Unknown
The environment is already there. When you arrive, the experience feels more like it's real than ordinary reality. You come back, you're changed. Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, Jack A was saying this in the 60s. Yeah. And passports. McGonigle 1969. He was comparing UFO occupant reports with European fairy folklore and finding structural overlap. He thought it couldn't be coincidental.

00;15;53;19 - 00;16;16;06
Unknown
He didn't have the DMT data set, though. We do. He didn't have the near-death literature that's emerged since the 1980s, which is a lot. He didn't have the systematic psychedelic surveys from the 2020s. We do. He had his own analytical instinct and historical breadth, and he got there before the data caught up with him. So kudos to him.

00;16;16;09 - 00;16;41;28
Unknown
What what I was able to do in the paper that Billy couldn't is run the comparison systematically across all six domains with a consistent coding framework and ask, does the conversions hold when you look at it rigorously rather than impressionistic? And it does. The convergence is not an illusion or a loose pattern recognition. It's structural. There is definitely similarities.

00;16;42;01 - 00;17;14;26
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. So I mean, what about those secondary characteristics? Because a couple of them I found pretty powerful when I read the paper. Yeah. Two in particular. Like the technological environment, abduction narratives are consistently describing structured interiors, unfamiliar technologies, purposeful environments like DMT. Participants consistently describe mechanical landscapes, living machinery, intelligent architecture, and fast geometric systems.

00;17;14;27 - 00;17;54;18
Unknown
These are not the same people. These are not people who read each other's accounts, and they're describing environments that have basically the same quality. It's it's purposeful. It's operating according to principles that aren't really chaotic. It reads more like visiting somewhere than like dreaming, right? The second one is what I call encounter reciprocity in the paper. And this is the observation that across multiple domains, witnesses report that the entities appear aware of the encounter from their side, not just that that the entities are present, that they were expecting the witness or sometimes surprised or welcoming them.

00;17;54;22 - 00;18;39;13
Unknown
That implies something about the directionality of the contact, like if the experience was purely internal, purely neurological production, you'd expect the entities to be passive backdrop like a background character. Instead, you know they're engaged, they have an agenda. Some of them appear to have been doing something before you got there that you interrupted, right? Yeah. That's the piece that keeps him up at night or staring at the ceiling fan, you know, understandable, because it's either the most consistent hallucination in human history, somehow independent of culture era substance or context, or it's pointing at something real about the nature of what's being encountered.

00;18;39;13 - 00;19;07;00
Unknown
I don't know which of those is true, but the question is serious enough to ask it clearly, like we like to do. Right? Right. All right. Well, we're going to take a short break, but when we come back, rom is going to do something slightly uncomfortable. We can talk about. We are going to talk about what this might actually mean, but not in a sensational way, you know, in a careful, evidence grounded way, because that's what we do.

00;19;07;02 - 00;20;27;05
Unknown
But the question on the table after the break is if the encounter architecture is real and consistent, what does that imply about consciousness itself? Because that's where the stops being a UAP story and starts being something that touches, you know, every part of what 14 wins has covered. So you know what? Stay with us.

00;20;27;07 - 00;20;36;03
Unknown
Welcome back. So all right, the architecture is documented. The question is how.

00;20;36;06 - 00;21;14;10
Unknown
Are you going to answer that question? I guess I want to hold multiple hypotheses open simultaneously because the data doesn't collapse into one, as usual. Right. Anyone who tells you it does as usual is moving faster than the evidence. But here are the three strongest frameworks and what the evidence does and doesn't support. First hypothesis purely neurological. The brain, under certain conditions like extreme physiological stress, psychoactive compounds, deep meditative or trance states, and then near-death experiences, they access a perceptual mode.

00;21;14;11 - 00;21;41;08
Unknown
It normally suppresses the brain's normally suppressing this mode, and those things can get in there. And the encounters are real perceptions, not hallucinations in the pejorative sense, but they're generated by the nervous system rather than by an external intelligence. This is consistent with the hyper real quality. You wouldn't confuse a DMT encounter with a dream because it isn't process the same way.

00;21;41;10 - 00;22;13;14
Unknown
Ordinary dreams feel like dreams. These don't, right? The problem with the purely neurological hypothesis is that it doesn't account for the physical evidence in UAP encounters. We've spent years building the case on this show that the AP phenomenon has a physical dimension. Radar returns, right? Like sensor corroboration, electromagnetic effects, multiple independent witness corroboration, environmental traces, the pursue the latest releases that they've been put out from the government.

00;22;13;14 - 00;22;44;12
Unknown
It only adds to that same record. So if we're asking why the experimental architecture of UAP Close encounters matches, DMT encounters, and the neurological hypothesis, the answer then we need to explain why physical objects like have a radar return and are somehow triggering neurological productions that match what people would generate under DMT without any physical object present, you know, and that's impossible.

00;22;44;12 - 00;23;14;19
Unknown
Gap to bridge. Yeah. So that's that's the purely neurological hypothesis. So what's the second one? So this is basically the consciousness field model. This is the framework we've been developing on 14 wins since the quantum consciousness article many moons ago. It's the Hilbert space framework. The idea of a substrate underlying ordinary material reality that consciousness can interact with, the entities have a stronger connection to whatever that substrate is.

00;23;14;20 - 00;23;48;18
Unknown
Altered states. DMT near death, deep meditation. Extreme trauma may be proximity to certain UAP phenomena. They temporarily weaken or dissolve the filter that ordinarily keeps human consciousness from perceiving them. You're not hallucinating. You're perceiving something real that the brain usually can't access, right? We're not trying to dress up mysticism in physics language here. The CIA spent serious money for 20 years on remote viewing the Stargate program.

00;23;48;18 - 00;24;15;23
Unknown
The results were published. The conclusion was that psi phenomena are real, at a low but statistically significant level. That is, the United States intelligence community spending operational funds on the premise that consciousness can access information non locally. The premise is not fringe. The applications remain contested, but the research record exists. All those papers, all the science around remote viewing, it exists right?

00;24;15;24 - 00;24;46;05
Unknown
Right. For sure. All right. So that's the consciousness field model. What's the third one. The contact interface model. This is the one I would find most consistent with the totality of research. And it's also the one that's hardest to say without sounding like you're going somewhere you shouldn't go. So let me try to be careful. The hypothesis is that the phenomenon itself, whatever it is, resides here, operating at a level we don't fully understand.

00;24;46;07 - 00;25;19;23
Unknown
It uses human consciousness as its primary contact medium. The reason UAP close encounters so often involve altered perception isn't because the witness is hallucinating. It's because the interaction requires a particular state of consciousness to occur. The trickster behavior we've documented equipment failure on demand, selective visibility, the sensation of intelligence actively managing the encounter. It's consistent with an entity that understands human perception well enough to operate within its gaps, and the DMT connection makes sense within that model.

00;25;19;25 - 00;25;49;23
Unknown
DMT temporarily removes the gap you end up perceiving directly what normally only surfaces in the encounter architecture under extraordinary circumstances. Delays control system theory from the 1970s, updated with 50 years of consciousness research and the modern psychedelic literature is pointing at something like this. He wasn't arguing for a simple extraterrestrial explanation. He was arguing for a phenomenon that interfaces with human consciousness in a way that is deliberate and structured.

00;25;49;25 - 00;26;20;07
Unknown
The entities aren't just present, they're managing the encounter. Yeah, I like that one. So which of the three do you hold? I hold the second and the third most consistent with the full body of evidence across everything we've documented. The first, the idea that it's purely neurological can account for that physical dimension. The second accounts for the experiential architecture, but it has to invoke a framework that mainstream science doesn't have the tools to really test.

00;26;20;09 - 00;26;43;09
Unknown
So it's just purely kind of theory. The third accounts for both, but it requires accepting that whatever we're dealing with is sophisticated enough to be intentional about how it reveals itself. Right? I like that one the best. I don't claim certainty. I claim that the neurological only explanation has a weight problem that the other two don't. Right, right.

00;26;43;10 - 00;27;13;13
Unknown
From here. There's that laser experiment. I know you you mentioned that in the early episode. Jesus was, like, years ago. Remember the DMT laser? Yeah, yeah, that was a separate series of experiments where researchers put a light through DMT crystals and projected the results onto a surface. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Yep. What appeared on the surface looks like structured code patterns that resembled information encoding.

00;27;13;13 - 00;27;47;01
Unknown
And the experiment has since been replicated. It doesn't really prove anything definitively. DMT is a crystal and crystals to frank light. So that's physics. You know, it's not mysticism, but the pattern of what appears is unusual enough that the people are publishing papers about it, and it rhymes in a way that I find uncomfortable and interesting with the recurring reports from MNT users that the experience involves encountering something that looks like the underlying code of reality.

00;27;47;03 - 00;28;13;00
Unknown
You don't have to conclude anything from that, but it's the kind of data point that should make a strict materialist take a pause. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just like the fractal geometries, right? I think that's one of the most common experiences that, people have where they they're all seeing the fractals. And people consistently describe same types of experiences in these altered states.

00;28;13;02 - 00;28;48;03
Unknown
Yeah. Well, that's good stuff. So let's let's pull the camera back and, you know, and ask, how far does this go? Well, conservatively, I'm going to go with 40,000 years, like the oldest cave art in the world, like sites in Indonesia, figures that archeologists can't really explain with assurance, like half human, half animal figures, figures that cognitive scientists would now largely interpret as depicting shamanic encounter experiences.

00;28;48;11 - 00;29;17;16
Unknown
The shamanic encounter experience is exactly what we're talking about. The beings encountered altered states contact architecture. Right? The medieval fairy tradition in Europe. So we got to be careful, because this has been dismissed as folklore for so long that people don't take it seriously as a phenomenological record. But when you strip out the cultural dressing and look at what witnesses were actually reporting, they would take it into another brown.

00;29;17;16 - 00;29;54;17
Unknown
They experienced missing or distorted time, encountered intelligent non-human beings, received information, returned, permanently changed. That's basically the encounter matrix that were describing same structure. 13th century Scotland 14th century France 16th century England Robert Kirk, Scottish minister, documented ferry encounters in 17th century, described beings that were naturally invisible unless they chose to be seen, or unless the witness had a particular attunement right to them through dream ritual, spiritual sensitivity.

00;29;54;21 - 00;30;24;07
Unknown
That's identical to what people report about the UUP trickster phenomenon today like selective visibility, intentional disclosure. They're changed afterwards. Right. We did an episode on the gin that covers the same ground, you know, from a from a different culture. You know, the gin is an Islamic tradition, but it goes pre pre-Islamic in origin and, you know, and found, you know, the cognate forms across the Near East and Central Asia.

00;30;24;10 - 00;30;51;05
Unknown
But, you know, it's intelligent beings, naturally invisible, who appear under conditions of spiritual distress. You know, it's esoteric practice or it's like a sensitivity, a common sensitivity. It's with, you know, you always hear about the sleep paralysis also, you know, the old the old hag is that. Let me say that. Right? Sure. Is it the old hag?

00;30;51;08 - 00;31;21;05
Unknown
It could be a type of gin. I don't know, strange. You know, strange physical marks that appear. Poltergeist activity, just anomalous experiences in the home. And of course, the hitchhiker effect episode documented exactly this pattern in modern UAP witnesses. You had Kenneth Arnold, the man whose 1947 sighting launched modern UFO research, went home after his encounter and had a poltergeist type experience.

00;31;21;08 - 00;31;50;23
Unknown
The encounter doesn't end with, you know, architecture of the encounters doesn't end with the encounter. You know, it follows you. So we've covered so much, you know, it's all so related. In a way. It's yeah, we're just even the grimoires, like, where what we found was a consistent structural repetition in how these texts described the entities being contacted, the methods that were used to make the contact and the nature of the communication, the results.

00;31;50;25 - 00;32;24;28
Unknown
The grimoires were not random superstition. They are systematic attempts to establish reliable contact with non-human intelligences, right using human consciousness as the interface. The DMT paper explains why those attempts had the architecture they did. They were accessing the same thing through different means, right? So C5, binaural beats, deep meditation, you know, psychedelics and even just, you know, group ritual, it's the same thing.

00;32;25;00 - 00;33;03;19
Unknown
Yeah. Like it's basically different delivery mechanisms potentially to a common perceptual state in which the encounter architecture becomes accessible, whether what's encountered in that state is internally generated or externally real is the question the data can't yet close. But the fact that the same delivery mechanisms like breathwork, rhythm, psychoactive compounds, sustained meditation, and like that 40Hz state that we've talked about so much and we wrote about on the site, they appear independently across cultures and millennia, all producing the same experiential output.

00;33;03;23 - 00;33;33;18
Unknown
It that in itself is significant. It's not cultural contamination that's causing that. That's convergent discovery. They're all discovering the same thing, like multiple civilizations independently discovering that aloe heals, burns. The underlying reality is there. They found it from different directions. Right? Right. So I mean, why now, you know, why does it matter now, all of this? That's the big question, right?

00;33;33;21 - 00;34;11;20
Unknown
Well, living in a moment where two of the largest modern contributions to this question are landing simultaneously and they're not being connected like the pursue releases, the government's nods towards disclosure, the Apollo material, the FBI, law enforcement accounts of orbs emitting orbs, the trans medium objects. But that's one threat. You know, the modern psychedelic research literature is like the Davis and Lawrence studies, the John Hopkins psilocybin studies, the systematic documentation of entity counters across tens of thousands of subjects.

00;34;11;22 - 00;34;39;14
Unknown
That's like a whole other threat. Yeah. And the mainstream is treating them as completely separate stories. One is a national security, a transparency in government issue, and the other is a neuroscience and mental health story. But the encounter architecture is what happens when you put them in the same room and look at them together. They're describing the same phenomenon from different angles of approach and 60 years of disciplinary separation.

00;34;39;15 - 00;35;07;12
Unknown
UAP researchers, you're over here. Consciousness researchers, you're over here, anthropologists. You sit over there, medical near-death researchers your way over there. Right. Has it prevents anyone from seeing the full shape of it? Yeah. I wonder just it's complex. And I wonder, just as a society, you know, we are being more open to psychedelics like psilocybin is is available in a couple states.

00;35;07;14 - 00;35;30;09
Unknown
Right. But what's the honest position at the end of all this. You know, it's like how do you use it? Yeah. We don't know what the entities are. We don't know whether the consciousness is interface model is correct. We don't know whether the experience architecture in a DMT study, in the experience architecture, in a UAP close encounter are produced by the same underlying cause.

00;35;30;12 - 00;35;56;06
Unknown
What we now know is that the pattern is real. It's consistent across 40,000 years of human documentation. It's now in peer reviewed literature in thousands of data points. It's pointing at a question about the nature of consciousness and reality that materialist science can't fully answer with its existing tools. Right? The phenomenon is not waiting for science to catch up.

00;35;56;06 - 00;36;24;26
Unknown
It's been doing what it does since before we had written language. We've been the variable. We're getting more sophisticated in how we document it, how we compare it and analyze it. But the pattern was always there, and that's the edge we work from. Hey, well, that's 14 wins, yo. No, it reminds me of of the teachings of Don Juan and that it was that anthropologist, I think, from the University of California, who I can't remember the details.

00;36;24;26 - 00;36;52;22
Unknown
I read it such a long time ago, but it was his name was Carlos Castaneda, I think. And he he was he was a legit anthropologist, and he decided to investigate the peyote culture. And he had a shaman in the southwest that was willing to show him what he knew. And his books was basically Alice's first book was basically documenting his experiences through peyote.

00;36;52;24 - 00;37;19;24
Unknown
And he got kind of got kind of sidelined by that. And people didn't want to really take it as real ethnic ethnography. But today's standards, it's almost it's, it's a, it's worth looking into again. You know, I might read that one again. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great description of a shamanistic and mystical journey that's aided by a psychoactive substance in a lot of these occult rituals that we've talked about.

00;37;19;24 - 00;37;45;16
Unknown
Certainly in the Crowley and Parsons world, they were always using drugs like. Yeah. And it's pretty consistent. So, you know, there are people would question, were you on a drug trip or did the ritual work, but the ritual sets intention for the drug trip. Sure. Yeah. And then so whatever happens there, is that real? And why does UFOs show up looking like something from a t trip, right.

00;37;45;18 - 00;38;10;14
Unknown
You're not going to answer that question by avoiding it. And the answer to UFOs is probably in that question among a few others. But you know that that's that's a central question. And the data gives you an opportunity to not avoid it, you know? Yeah. For sure. Well, hey, well that's 14 wins all y'all. It's a great paper and everyone listens.

00;38;10;15 - 00;38;30;04
Unknown
You know, you look forward to reading this one because it's good. It's really dense. The paper and the summary is going it's going to be up in 14 wins though right on the website. Yeah we were so it took so long for us to do this episode. You know there's a lot of research involved. But I was going to try to publish the paper.

00;38;30;04 - 00;38;53;06
Unknown
So I will either do an extensive summary or the paper itself up there. You wouldn't be missing anything but a lot of gobbledygook and citations if I don't put the whole thing up, but it'll be pretty close to the full text. Yeah. Right on, right on. But hey, Pete, if you want to copy of the whole paper, go ahead and hit me up by email and I'll give it to you.

00;38;53;06 - 00;39;17;02
Unknown
Because where else do you get on demand science except Fortean Winds? When you got the hookup? So this is one of those episodes I think that's, you know, it's worth sending to someone who asks why we cover what we cover. You know, and this is why the phenomenon is real. The documentation is serious. And the question it's asking is the biggest one there is.

00;39;17;03 - 00;39;40;23
Unknown
Right? We're asking the big questions, you know, so, you know, find us wherever you get your podcasts. And you know, we are all human. Podcast, by the way, to you should probably state that on every episode now. Yeah. And it's really offensive to call someone non-human. I would like to just point that out. Right.

00;39;40;25 - 00;39;49;27
Unknown
Well thanks, Ram. Thanks everyone for listening. All right. See you next time, bones. Take care y'all.

00;39;50;00 - 00;40;14;09
Unknown
When the dam. Did I miss the power of blackmail networks and the incomplete 48 wins. Passing what the mainstream won't see. Government controller. Just strangers in the VIP. Let's get dark. 40 and winds blowing through the server. Racks. Files redacted. Secrets in the zipper packs. Epstein anomaly. Compromised pyramid scheme. Dam data. Other Island floating in the mainstream. We don't believe we measure what the digits say.

00;40;14;10 - 00;40;31;12
Unknown
From paranormal skies to the black meadows. The rules are being by the ones who write the law for the end database. Got the files you never saw. Rains of frogs. Now we're tracking private planes. Little Saint James anomalies cover my eyes. The rain. I love the dam. We gotta love the elite. Where the UFO?