The Hidden Thread – Part 2: Occult Warfare and Fortean Fronts

As World War II erupts across Europe, the occult undercurrents seeded in Nazi ideology begin to manifest in darker, more structured forms. In this episode, we follow the secret arcane projects that evolved behind SS walls — from Himmler’s ritual fortress at Wewelsburg to the shadowy halls of the Ahnenerbe. 

Follow along with the timeline of key names, dates and events of Fortean Phenomenon from Wold War 2 we put togther especially for this episode.

We explore how figures like Karl Maria Wiligut and Wilhelm Wulff helped shape a parallel world of runic rituals, mysticism, and astrology that quietly guided Nazi policy even as the regime publicly suppressed it.

At the same time, strange aerial phenomena begin to haunt the skies. Allied and Axis pilots alike report luminous orbs — the infamous Foo Fighters — while rumors swirl of exotic Nazi technology like Die Glocke. We delve into the mystery of SS General Hans Kammler’s disappearance, the eerie silence surrounding the Riese complex, and the fine line between esoteric science and Fortean myth.

This is not ancient myth. These are the fragments of a real and unsettling parallel history — where ideology, mysticism, and unexplainable phenomena collided in the crucible of the Second World War.

Full URL link the Fortean World War 2 Timeline: https://forteanwinds.com/2025/04/26/fortean-phenomena-during-world-war-ii/

Transcript

[Music] 
 Welcome to the Fortean Winds podcast where we 
 talk about UFOs and all the related high 
 stranges. I'm Bones and with us as 
 always is RamX. Hey. Hey everybody. Hey 
 Ram. Uh so here we are. We're we're 
 going to continue with our discussion uh 
 about the occult and Nazism 
 and how it all uh kind of tied together 
 during World War II. And then I suppose 
 these episodes, you know, they get long 
 because we have so much to say, but then 
 uh next episode we'll get get into it 
 even deeper kind of post World War II. 
 Is that what we're going to do? Yeah. 
 We'll talk about where these ideas went 
 after World War II. But I think in the 
 last episode we we kind of talked about 
 where they came from and how they got 
 into the Nazi theology and now we'll 
 talk about how they bloomed after that 
 and then we'll talk about what happened 
 to them following the war in the next 
 episode. 
 Okay. Great. Great. So a lot of it So a 
 lot of it started in the in the 19th 
 century, right? I mean a lot of uh I 
 think I recall last episode we talked 
 about a lot of movements at the turn of 
 the century. Right. Right. Yeah. the 
 revival of spiritualism. We talked about 
 Helena Bllovachski really coming in and 
 sort of resetting the field for 
 hermeticism and we talked about how that 
 inspired a lot of oultists at the time 
 in a lot of different directions. So 
 like Crowley and the Golden Dawn went in 
 a different direction and then these 
 guys Guido von List as well as 
 Liebenfelds they sort of took it and 
 moved it towards a more Aryan or 
 arosophy which was a blending of 
 Blobotsky's theosophy with a bunch of 
 eugenic ideas about how the Nazi party 
 and Germans were physically and 
 biologically better. Right? And then 
 they wound that into a history which 
 involved an Atlantislike society that 
 would have been the Aryans. And so they 
 were looking for this lost Aryan 
 technology that had been from their 
 past. And and then what what I from what 
 I understand is that uh you know it 
 developed into this occult and then kind 
 of when fascism really grabbed hold of 
 it all they kind of wanted to get rid of 
 the occult a little bit because the 
 those in power got what they wanted but 
 then mysticism in itself is kind of a 
 personal experience. Right. So so it 
 kind of promoted too much independence 
 and the Nazis kind of had to rein it in. 
 Right. Yeah, it's a good little preview 
 of what we'll talk about today. I think 
 we kind of set set some of that up and 
 and um we'll go through the timeline. 
 So, yeah, in advance of this, I put 
 together a timeline of events from World 
 War II, and that's because high school 
 was a long time ago. I know that dates 
 and the years are going to get lost on 
 people, but they are important to the 
 whole story. So, we'll kind of go 
 through that blowby-blow of like how the 
 Nazis got really into it, where Hitler 
 was like, I enough of this stuff where 
 he couldn't really fight it, that sort 
 of thing, right? So, that's a great 
 setup. We'll we'll start with really 
 World War I and the end of World War I 
 put Germany into a really bad spot. So, 
 there was the Treaty of Versailles and 
 they had to pay out a bunch of 
 reparations. They had lost the war and 
 and the industrial revolution was in 
 full swing. So people were losing their 
 jobs. You had a working class in Germany 
 that became angry and prone to wild 
 thinking. And that that's going to 
 happen, right? You're watching machines 
 take your jobs just like today. You're 
 watching machines take your jobs and 
 you're like, "Well, who owns the 
 machines, right? And who's behind it 
 all? And if God's real, where is he?" 
 And all all these questions start to 
 come up to people, right? And and so 
 it's within that environment that these 
 Nazi occult ideas really start to take 
 hold. And that's really important. Sure. 
 Yep. Taking taking advantage of people's 
 uh disadvantages basically, 
 right? These ideas are usually not 
 prevalent in groups that aren't 
 vulnerable. You'll see rich people and 
 people who are well-connected join cults 
 and go off the deep end, but not in 
 nearly as great as proportions as people 
 who are searching for anything who are 
 desperate. So, there was a lot of 
 desperate people at the time and the Thu 
 Society saw that. We mentioned them and 
 they get involved in a lot of uh lore 
 and they get involved in a lot of 
 conspiracies and they're a great one for 
 us to clear up a little bit because 
 their role was very important. They 
 backed Hitler prior to him really taking 
 control and they did so by promoting 
 these occult beliefs within the lower 
 classes. So you had wealthy occultists 
 going out and actively recruiting the 
 lower classes and even luring them away 
 from Christianity. I mean this is the 
 type of conspiracy they talk about 
 today. Right. Yeah. Right. And it really 
 occurred back then and it was the Thu 
 Society that was behind it and Himmler 
 was of course majorly involved in this 
 as well and very supportive of it. But 
 here's where it gets interesting. I'll 
 jump ahead a little bit with fool's 
 society because when Hitler comes to 
 power, they end up saying, "Hey, we 
 backed Hitler before he was powerful and 
 the leader of Germany and then Hitler 
 says, hey, shut up. No one backs Hitler 
 except Hitler." And he shuts him down, 
 right? He says, "No more of these secret 
 societies." And then he wants to own 
 oultism and so does Himmler. So it 
 really gets wrapped into the SS at that 
 point. So, a lot of these conspiracies 
 around the Thu society, we're going to 
 clean up a few of these around the lore 
 are misinformation. Like, so they did 
 have that important role, but then they 
 got shut down and the occultism got 
 pulled into the SS, 
 right? I always find it it's it's, you 
 know, it's just I find it fascinating 
 how occultism flourishes amongst the the 
 wealthy and privileged. You know, it's 
 uh it's it's it's almost dark. I mean, 
 you could you you can understand how, 
 you know, like new religions pop up out 
 of out of public desperation, times of 
 of trouble, right? Because people are 
 looking for answers. But then when you 
 have the privilege, you know, up 
 standing up high and they're meddling in 
 the occult and kind of just using the 
 public as their play things, it's, you 
 know, it's a dark it's a dark thing. It 
 is dark and it it gives birth to a lot 
 of these conspiracy theories and I can 
 see why. I mean, I think it's it's worth 
 asking the question as to like why would 
 someone with millions of dollars and 
 everything they could imagine be 
 dabbling in the occult and dark stuff 
 like this? Like that's a that's a a 
 valid question. Boredom. Yeah, I think 
 in some cases boredom is true, but in 
 this case they actually used it with 
 intent, with an agenda. They actually 
 intentionally wanted to separate people 
 from their own religions and bring them 
 into a new occult Nazism, right? 
 Ariosophy. And this gets this is another 
 thing we can clear up here. There's been 
 an effort to say that Nazism was okay 
 with Christianity. And I think that's an 
 order to recruit Christians into Nazism. 
 That couldn't be further than the truth, 
 right? They absolutely had a problem 
 with Christianity. Hitler was very 
 explicit about his issues with 
 Christianity. He didn't want them 
 interfering with his power. And Himmler 
 was very explicit about his reasons for 
 hating Christianity. And number one was 
 their sexual morality he thought was 
 stifling. And number two was their 
 compassion. 
 Ah sure. 
 He hated Christianity for the empathy 
 and compassion, the central message of 
 Christ's teaching, right? 
 He hated Christianity for that. These 
 were the most powerful men in Germany 
 without question. They did not like 
 Christianity. They were actively 
 attacking Christianity, but not publicly 
 obviously. Oh, publicly. No. Oh, okay. 
 Yes, it was very public. It is known. 
 This is in their journals. They were 
 saying it to people. This is not Oh, 
 okay. Yeah, it is completely I'm glad 
 you said that. That that's just a a 
 complete myth that is really been spread 
 with an agenda. And we're going to talk 
 about a few of those that got involved 
 in the lore and the calls are coming in 
 from inside the house on some of this 
 stuff where the UFO community is 
 promoting things that have been clearly 
 debunked and are clearly hoaxes with an 
 intent to whitewash some of the Nazi 
 party stuff. Ah, and we'll jump right 
 into one of the big ones there because I 
 think it's fascinating. It's Maria 
 Orsik, which you've heard her name, 
 right? And seen it in different History 
 Channel documentaries. Of of course, 
 she's fiction. And this one, I have to 
 admit, got me until I looked into it. 
 But she is a fictional character. There 
 is no record of her existing. Yeah, that 
 is wild. the guys who ended up coming up 
 with her story produced a document that 
 was clearly a composite and a fake. So 
 the only document that's ever been 
 produced that shows that she existed was 
 fake. And then there's a whole series of 
 ideas that come from that idea where oh 
 Maria Ors was Hitler psychic and she was 
 involved with this Vil society. Well the 
 Vill society didn't exist. I already 
 told you the Thu Society did and then 
 the occult got rolled into the SS and 
 that's going to be important and we 
 really need to follow that thread. So we 
 need to clean this stuff up. There was 
 no Val society. They did think that 
 there was some connections to inner 
 earth but like I told you they were 
 really thought it was a connection to 
 something like Atlantis and that their 
 ancestors were something like the 
 Atlanteanss. That's the best way for me 
 to summarize it. But it wasn't this 
 Brill society. It wasn't the Edward 
 Buller Littton stuff. I won't even get 
 into that too much, but you're going to 
 hear it and see it in documentaries and 
 it's fiction. Like, it's it's not true. 
 And the important thing to know here is 
 that they shut down the Thu Society. And 
 at that point, 
 Himmler and Willigot, who we talked 
 about last time, Himmler ran the SS. 
 Willig was his guru. 
 Himmler brings in Willigot to sort of 
 become the bishop of the Nazi party and 
 Willig starts designing the symbols that 
 had a cult significance and all of that 
 is happening within the SS. And as we 
 said, Hitler was not that big a fan. But 
 let's go through the timeline because 
 that'll that'll clear it up a little 
 more for you. So in 1919, the Treaty of 
 Versailles after World War I puts 
 Germany in a really bad spot. They have 
 to pay all these reparations. People are 
 bringing wheelbarrels full of money to 
 get bread. The bread lines are out out 
 of control. The Nazi party starts 
 growing within that and Hitler becomes 
 involved in 
 1920. So the occultism thing is is going 
 here. The Thu society is active and 
 promoting Hitler during that time. And 
 then Hitler has a failed coup attempt in 
 1923 called the beer hall push. Very 
 famous, right? And he goes to jail. He 
 get he goes to prison and Hess goes with 
 him. And it's Hess that he dictates mine 
 comp to Hess writes it all down. And 
 Hess, as we mentioned, Rudolph Hess, who 
 was Hitler's deputy, was a true believer 
 in this all of this occultism. And he 
 believed that Hitler was something like 
 a Tutonic messiah. 
 Okay. While Hess and Hitler are spending 
 10 years in jail, Himmler is growing in 
 power within the brown shirts and what 
 would become the SS later. And Himmler 
 is kind of a weird little wimp. And he's 
 not a big tough guy, but he's hanging 
 around all these tough guys. And this 
 becomes important later on. and he he 
 really wants to be like a knight and he 
 really wants to be strong and it becomes 
 a big part of his character. 
 Yeah. One of those people where they're 
 they're they're really cowards but 
 they're they're always tough when 
 they're around their when their group of 
 buddies. Right. Exactly. So historians 
 even today I've heard them say that oh 
 if Himmler were alive today he'd be in 
 his mother's basement like posting Nazi 
 stuff online and you know he's that type 
 right and he got into power and and 
 that's where he was making his move 
 from. He was making his move from within 
 sort of that movement. So he grows in 
 power and then the great depression 
 begins in 1929 and there's economic 
 collapse all over the world. And it's 
 good to remember that the US is facing 
 all of that at the same time too. We're 
 sure we're in the midst of all that and 
 the US doesn't even want to enter World 
 War II, right? When until Pearl Harbor 
 happens in 1933. There's the Reich Stag 
 fire and this is probably started by the 
 Nazis and they blamed it on the Jews and 
 then used that as a reason to take 
 control of what was a multi-party 
 government and put it all under their 
 control. 
 Right? And in the confusion after the 
 Reich stag fire and with this lower 
 class army that they had built up they 
 were able to do that. So the occultism 
 got really important in that moment, 
 right? They probably wouldn't have had 
 that type of army without a theology 
 because it gave their wouldbe soldiers 
 something like a bala or a jihad or some 
 sort of greater purpose that they were 
 going toward. Right. Right. So it was it 
 wasn't just uh economic turmoil. Uh 
 there was there was a deeper meaning 
 behind behind it all to drive them even 
 more. Exactly. You needed both in order 
 to remove the lower classes from their 
 religion and really own them. You needed 
 both. Times of transformation tend to 
 require creation and destruction. So you 
 needed some means of destruction. And 
 they understood this very well. This 
 wasn't just philosophy to them. It was 
 very intentional. like Himmler and 
 Willigot, they were like, "We're going 
 to destroy the Christian religion and 
 replace it with this. We're going to 
 just eliminate Jews entirely and anyone 
 else we consider undesirable, but 
 Christianity we're going to 
 replace." Again, as physical proof of 
 that, there are all of these 
 amphitheaters that Himmler had built all 
 over Germany with the intention of 
 replacing the churches. And instead he 
 saw a future where this folklike German 
 culture would come to these 
 amphitheaters and celebrate the two 
 solstesses and instead of Christmas they 
 were going to celebrate Ule which was 
 going to replace Christmas. No kidding. 
 Yeah. I didn't Yeah, I didn't know that. 
 Strange. It is strange and I didn't know 
 it until I had done the the deep 
 research because these 
 ideas have been whitewashed. Well, you 
 know, a lot of people in in history, a 
 lot of people focus on the scapegoatism, 
 you know, of of all the the all the 
 victims of 
 Nazism. You know, it always kind of 
 skips right to that. It's just it's just 
 hate and all that, but there was it was 
 deeply rooted and organized. Absolutely. 
 We'll get to the Holocaust, but all of 
 this had to happen prior to the 
 Holocaust in order to get people to 
 engage with something so horrible. 
 Right. Right. And we just can't skip 
 over it or you really lose the heart of 
 the movement which is still very 
 relevant today. Right. So in 1934, 
 another big moment happens and this is 
 the night of the long knives. And this 
 is when Hitler and Himmler really take 
 control of the Nazi party. In order to 
 do that, Hitler invites Ernst Rome, who 
 is then the leader of the SA, which 
 would sort of predate the SS, and he 
 invites him and his entourage, to a 
 private meeting where they're going to 
 sort out their differences. Instead, he 
 has Himmler use his guys to kill them 
 all in their hotel rooms. Okay. Yeah. 
 Right. And just like that, Himmler, 
 Hess, and Hitler, of course, take 
 control of the Nazi party entirely in 
 Germany. Really, entirely, right? And it 
 was at that point that Himmler, not 
 Hitler, was able to really start getting 
 into his occult beliefs. So now that 
 Himmler, Hess, and Hitler have control, 
 Himmler is able to turn the SS into the 
 occult engine that he always wanted to. 
 And this is where his obsession with 
 knights and dragons and Arththeran 
 legend would really start showing up. He 
 wants to build his own castle. He wants 
 12 key leaders to be his knights. He 
 even builds within the castle something 
 like a round table. That would be 
 Arththeran legend. And then I found out 
 more. We set it up a little bit in the 
 last time. I said we wanted to dig into 
 this more. But he said he claimed to 
 have some a series of visions. And I 
 thought that that was interesting. And 
 the visions that he claimed to have were 
 that he was a legendary German king 
 Heinrich that had been reincarnated and 
 this was his great grand destiny. Oh, 
 how convenient. 
 Right. Uh there was no proof of that. 
 I'm just going to leave it there. 
 right? No, no phonographic evidence, but 
 he did see himself as the high priest of 
 Nazi occultism. So, he was the driver 
 behind things like looking for the ark, 
 looking for the spirit of destiny, 
 looking for all sorts of Nazi and other 
 religious artifacts, too. Uh they went 
 to Tibet searching for all sorts of 
 things. They were really interested in 
 Tibet because Blovszky said that she had 
 had her revelations in Tibet. Their 
 assumption was that they were going to 
 go to Tibet and find evidence of their 
 Aryan ancestors. Right? Their assumption 
 was that when they found the ark, it was 
 going to have evidence that it belonged 
 to some sort of Tutonic or Nazi 
 tradition. That's what they thought. But 
 as we know um that just led to the 
 melting of Nazi faces in the end. 
 Yeah. Well, they did find the Carl Kora 
 hole, as I mentioned, in Russia. And 
 this was a subterranean structure that 
 is yet to be studied in earnest, but it 
 has been studied by one team of 
 speliologists or spelunkers, right, who 
 went down there and mapped the whole 
 thing, videoed the whole thing, and then 
 another guy went back in 2019. But 
 there's yet to be a real archaeology 
 team go out there and study this 
 subterranean structure that has 
 megalithic blocks that resembled a great 
 pyramid. Yeah. And could be prehistoric. 
 And the Nazis found it. This is very 
 interesting. One of the things the guy 
 who rediscovered the cave later in the 
 2000s found was a actual World War II 
 Nazi marking near the site. And then 
 they found another schwashika like 
 symbol that was much much older, 
 possibly prehistoric and belonged to the 
 people who created the site. So again, 
 the Nazis thought, oh, we're we're 
 finding our history, right? Right. 
 That's what they wanted, but they were 
 finding anomalous structures. And then 
 there's Wellisberg Castle, and it was 
 designed as a ritual and initiation 
 center in the SS. all the Nazi symbology 
 around the castle like the black sun 
 mosaic and there was the hall of the 
 dead for what would be the SS Grail 
 Knights. They wanted to create their own 
 Grail Knights and they had a hall with 
 their different positions on it where 
 they would do these occult rituals. Now 
 the strange thing about Welssburg Castle 
 is we don't know a ton of what happened 
 in there. The SS were pretty tight with 
 what went on there. And then they were 
 killing people who knew. And then after 
 the war, they were attempting to burn it 
 all down, but looters got there first 
 through a lot of it and cleaning the 
 place out. So there it was probably 
 packed with tons. Well, we know it was 
 packed with tons of artifacts and 
 treasures from all over the world that 
 then went out into the black market. But 
 a lot of that was being directed also by 
 Himmler's guru, Carl Maria Willie. And 
 we we set him up in the last episode. 
 And as as we mentioned, he was a veteran 
 of World War I, who then got involved in 
 the Masons and some secret societies and 
 the occult. And then he finds his way 
 into Germany, right? where he find he 
 meets Himmler at like what would be a an 
 alternative media conference, right, 
 around German history where Himmler's 
 like, "Hey, I like what you have to say 
 about the Nazis being Atlantian Aryans 
 from another time. We should hang out." 
 And so they get very close. So he ends 
 up making Willig the head of his history 
 department and the Anonurb, which is the 
 Nazi archaeology wing. And when you see 
 the villains in Raiders of the Lost Ark, 
 that would be the Anunnerbe. They were 
 really going around the world with 
 soldiers trying to steal precious 
 artifacts. And Willigot was the head of 
 that group. So it was his ideas, right? 
 That's super important because then you 
 know, oh, it was his ideas that they 
 were running around the world pursuing 
 and that was part of the SS then. 
 Correct. Okay. So at that point all of 
 the occultism starts to roll under the 
 SS and Hitler is worried about other 
 things. He's worried about more power. 
 He's worried about taking more 
 territory. He's worried about the army. 
 This 
 occultism only helps him to the extent 
 that it helps motivate his army. And 
 then he's willing to listen to 
 astrologers. And we'll talk about that 
 too. He's willing to listen to 
 astrologers and mediums when he thinks 
 they have good information. If he thinks 
 there's advanced technology, he's 
 interested in that. But its only 
 function, the push and the theology and 
 the mythology is all growing out of the 
 SS. Will ends up structuring the SS in 
 the occult ways based off of the Masonic 
 orders that he had been a part of. And 
 even though Himmler had a big problem 
 with Masons, so did Hitler. They wanted 
 them nowhere near their country because 
 again they just don't want any secret 
 societies that they don't control, 
 right? They were more than happy to take 
 some of those Masonic rituals and make 
 them part of the SS. And then Willig 
 also starts involving a lot of runes, a 
 lot of old neopagan and pagan runes. So 
 that be gets interesting for a cultist. 
 What I would say is that they end up 
 becoming a cult. Not just a cult, but a 
 cult with a C. C U L T. Yeah. Because 
 they have a belief in a supernatural 
 messiah with Hitler. They have a belief 
 in a whole new theology. And then they 
 have the same tactics of brainwashing 
 that we use to define what a cult is 
 today. It also becomes, you know, more 
 of a top-down power structure, right? I 
 mean then you have the furer that that's 
 knows all and must control all like and 
 opposed to the cult mysticism which is 
 more kind of individual experiences. 
 Right. Top down to a cartoonish degree. 
 Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I'm going to fast 
 forward a little bit here. So basically 
 from 1934 to 1938 it's Willigot that's 
 really driving the occult influence in 
 the party from a sort of theology 
 standpoint. And then in 
 1938 Himmler finds out that Willigot had 
 spent time in a sanitarium or a mental 
 asylum. And there were a lot of rumors 
 about why he had been in that asylum. 
 But the strongest evidence is that he 
 thought that his channeling ability was 
 tied to the fact that he was a male in 
 his line and that if he did not have a 
 son, his channeling ability would not be 
 passed on and he kept having daughters. 
 Yeah, he kept having daughters. Strange. 
 And it drove him crazy. He got very 
 violent towards his wife and his 
 daughters. Oh my god. Yeah. And that's 
 allegedly why he was in the asylum. But 
 Himmler finds out about it and he says, 
 "This is going to be really embarrassing 
 because I've been saying you are the 
 Rasputin of Germany, right? And it's 
 going to look like you're crazy." So he 
 forces Willig into an early retirement 
 and basically sort of exiles him and 
 puts him out of the way until he dies a 
 few years later. So it doesn't end well 
 for him or any of the people we're going 
 to talk about which at least there's 
 that soloulless. Right. Right. Will it 
 kind of set the tone but Himmler kept it 
 going throughout the these cult 
 influences were used as a form of like 
 Nazi mythmaking and a ritualization of 
 the state. So one of the ways that they 
 would do that is these Nermberg rallies 
 and they would make them sort of mass 
 rituals. Right. Right. And they were 
 really choreographed to be synchronized 
 emotionally 
 and like there were speeches, there's 
 torches, there's music. And the goal 
 here was to induce a translike state or 
 a euphoric state. And one of the 
 scholars that I was watching being 
 interviewed during this was a boy during 
 Germany in World War II and he was 
 Jewish and he was like 14 years old. and 
 he goes to one of these Nuremberg 
 rallies and he hears Hitler speaking and 
 he said he had gotten so caught up in it 
 even though that he knew it was evil he 
 started cheering and he said to this day 
 he still couldn't explain it 
 and this was one of the moments where I 
 was researching a little bit I'll admit 
 I'm a forian I I had this sort of idea 
 that that Hitler's charisma was 
 described often as being almost 
 supernatural 
 so I looked into that a little bit from 
 that from that perspective and said 
 could I see anything here that would 
 make me think that it was for sure 
 supernatural and I didn't he did have 
 some contact and lessons from an 
 occultist that was also an actor this 
 man was said to have influenced Hitler 
 heavily in his speech making but at the 
 time that he met with that man he was 
 already known for whipping up crowds and 
 being able to turn a crowd of bluecollar 
 workers ers into SS recruits. 
 Yeah. And you said that Hess actually 
 believed that uh Hitler was the Messiah. 
 Yeah. And all of that happened before 
 Hitler had those lessons. So Okay. I 
 tend to think that he was just unusually 
 gifted in that. And if the phenomenon 
 was involved, then it was probably from 
 a long time back. Yeah. But there was 
 something weird there. And the Nazis 
 played into it and they used those 
 Nermberg rallies and what they had which 
 was this unusually gifted ortor who was 
 not very bright either. That was very 
 clear in this research that Hitler was 
 not a real smart guy. But this talent 
 that he had was predatural almost and 
 let's not forget you know the Nazis 
 promoted the new technology of of 
 radios, right? So I remember I remember 
 hearing how they that Nazis actually 
 developed like a cheap version of uh 
 radio so they could broadcast to as many 
 people as possible. 
 They really understood the value of 
 propaganda and this is the problem with 
 propagandists like Nazis that they have 
 no ethics. They they have no guidelines, 
 right? So they can lie. And like if I 
 were to compare it to UFO research, you 
 and I always talk about how we'll never 
 be able to get the clickbait type 
 traffic that other podcasts and websites 
 do because we refuse to do that sort of 
 clickbait, right? And the Nazis were not 
 afraid of that. It was like whatever 
 you're into, we're into. And it's Nazi, 
 right? Yeah. 
 you know a certain level of uh 
 shamelessness I guess you call or no 
 just having no shame. Yeah. Basically is 
 a superpower that type of ruthlessness 
 and that was really what allowed people 
 like Himmler who as I mentioned was 
 wimpy and Hitler who was kind of dumb 
 and neither of them were physically 
 imposing Aryan supermen that they 
 thought were so great. Right. Right. 
 Sure. They were kind of dumpy and 
 unattractive and yet 
 and yet they they rose to these 
 positions. And so Hitler was cast as 
 this prophesized savior of Germany and 
 that gives people a central figure to 
 drive towards and then you have all 
 these Nazi films. They were like you 
 said that they were getting into radio. 
 They were also way ahead in the use of 
 video and or way ahead in the use of 
 film for propaganda for sure. And they 
 were using Carl Jungl like 
 archetypes to communicate deeper meaning 
 and getting people within them. And 
 these are occult ideas. They're both a 
 cult and cult with the sea ideas. And 
 they were in the Nazi party. But, you 
 know, it's it's uh it's just 
 fascinating, too, though, because, you 
 know, the public or or every household 
 having a radio still was kind of it 
 wasn't there yet, but it was a new 
 technology that that helped them extend 
 their power. Absolutely. Which I mean, 
 which you can, you know, you can make 
 many parallels with that with with other 
 times in history. Yeah. And they so they 
 were searching for power and that's 
 really what it boiled down to. It didn't 
 matter what religious object had power. 
 They thought they were all tied to some 
 sort of power and they thought it all 
 tied back to them. You know, they they 
 were drank their own Kool-Aid. It wasn't 
 like some of them, like even Himmler, it 
 wasn't like he he thought, "Oh, I know I 
 made this up. He made it up and then he 
 goes, I believe it." Right. Right. They 
 were looking for Atlantis. They were 
 looking for Hyperoreia. They were 
 looking for Lamura. 
 They were investigating occult energy 
 fields. They were investigating lay 
 lines and shamanistic practices. They 
 were in Tibet doing all sorts of 
 meditation rituals that they were then 
 bringing back into Wellsburg Castle and 
 practicing right in in that occult way 
 where you make it your own and they were 
 making it Nazi. So going back into the 
 what actually happened that of fortune 
 and significance during the war, we we 
 do have to point to the astrologers and 
 the channelers and the psychics that 
 Nazis thought so much of. It's the one 
 thing where I could even find 
 conventional historians agreeing that 
 some of the Nazi astrologers appeared to 
 have found yubot using a form of map 
 dowsing. 
 Okay, folks are probably familiar with 
 the idea of water dowsing where you take 
 a fork stick and you go out and they 
 also use this for mines during World War 
 II. They're speaking of 14 phenomena. 
 They were they were finding mines um 
 Americans were getting dowsers from the 
 backwoods to go find mines using their 
 mystic methods in World War II. 
 Interesting. So yeah, the Nazi dowsers 
 were utilizing map dowsing, which 
 involves taking a pendant usually and 
 moving it around a map and putting your 
 intent and your will and getting into 
 that translike state until you it starts 
 making a movement and they were able to 
 find which are submarines, right? 
 Interesting. That's impossible to do by 
 random. At random. Yeah. So I did find 
 find evidence where even conventional 
 historians would back that that much 
 happened. So their interest in occultism 
 kept dropping as obviously the war 
 turned bad. business of the day was 
 really about survival and so did 
 Hitler's and Himmler's relationship 
 continue to deteriorate because back 
 when things were going well he didn't 
 really mind that Himmler was spending 
 all of this money and all of these 
 resources pursuing mystic things all 
 over the planet and Himmler was funding 
 that himself through the SS by the way 
 so Hitler wasn't backing it it's a very 
 misguided interpretation that Hitler was 
 behind all of this. Himmler was finding 
 ways to fund the Anunnerbe himself so 
 that it wasn't taking from war resources 
 and that Hitler couldn't stop him. 
 Right? But that all goes downhill as the 
 war goes on because as the so as the 
 situation in the war begins to 
 deteriorate, so does their interest 
 change from occultism towards advanced 
 tech. At the outbreak of the war, occult 
 practices are tolerated within SS 
 circles and that's in 1939, right? And 
 then from 1940 to 
 1941, we start hearing of Foo Fighters 
 and you're hearing these reports on both 
 sides, right? Yeah. The reports of Foo 
 Fighters from then are identical to the 
 reports of David Fraver and Alex 
 Dietrich who talked about their Tik Tok 
 encounter. identical, right? Yeah. Where 
 they said they thought they were engaged 
 with these objects. There are some 
 instances where there was strong 
 evidence that some allied aircraft and 
 personnel had been injured or killed by 
 weird phenomenon and it had been covered 
 up. There were fooer incidents that were 
 recorded. There was even pictures of 
 them. There's witness reports of those 
 that was happening. And I've always 
 wondered, were they happening more for 
 the Allies and more for the Axis? Was 
 was this part of this occult influence? 
 Were they able to conjure some sort of 
 foo fighter response in the in the sky? 
 I And I don't know. I don't think that 
 that's very clear. But yeah, that it's 
 strange though because you think about 
 it, it's that's still going on today. 
 It's just a It is. I mean, we don't call 
 them foo fighters, but uh yeah, I mean, 
 just in not to change the subject, just 
 but just in recent news, there was a 
 there was a Navy uh rear admiral that's 
 telling Congress that that these 
 objects, you call them foo fighters, are 
 are so commonplace today that they're be 
 pilots are becoming desensitized by it, 
 you know. So, it's like decades of this. 
 Uh yeah, uh at least like a hundred 
 years now. I mean, that we've been we've 
 been seeing this stuff. So, and then to 
 keep pretending like it's new to your 
 point. Right. Right. Those food fighter 
 reports are identical to the ones that 
 happened in 2022. Right. Like, so it it 
 doesn't really The idea that disclosure 
 is imminent is a bold-faced lie, guys. 
 Yep. As 40 and 41 goes around, there's a 
 lot more Foo Fighter incidents. 1941 
 comes and Rudolph Hess sees the war 
 turning sour towards Germany and then he 
 flies solo to Scotland and he was driven 
 by some sort of astrological advice. 
 It's believed the advice came from 
 Wilhelm Wolf who was a noted astrologer 
 in Germany at the time. And Hess 
 believed that the cosmic forces that 
 Wolf had identified would allow for a 
 German British alliance and the 
 continued existence of Germany, right? 
 And of course that didn't happen. They 
 took in Hess, right? And they said, 
 "Hey, thanks for coming in. Tell us 
 everything you know." And it was very 
 damaging to the Nazi party. And then 
 Hitler says, "That's it for oultism." 
 And he tries to shut down astrology for 
 a minute, right? He's really picking on 
 Himmler at that time and put Himmler 
 into more military control. So even 
 Himmler is not really as focused on it. 
 There's still occult rituals happening 
 within Wellsburg Castle. And the SS is 
 also running genocide at that point, 
 right? They're behind the concentration 
 camps. And the stress gets to be too 
 much for Himler. From the time he was 
 young, he was known to have a weak 
 stomach. It would keep him in bed for 
 hours at a time. And the more Hitler 
 Adolf Hitler started to come down on 
 Hinrich Himmler. Their their name sounds 
 similar, but the more Adolf started to 
 come down on Heinrich, the worse 
 Hinrich's stomach got, and the more he 
 would be in bed for hours at a time and 
 having his subordinates do all of this 
 dirty work. Wow. 
 But eventually Adolf becomes very 
 disgusted with Hinrich and says, "Okay, 
 I'm demoting you from the military 
 thing. You just stick with the 
 concentration camps." Right? 
 And at this time, Germany's losing, 
 right? Hess is now captured. The Allies 
 know what he knows, and Hitler is 
 desperate. So, it's at this point where 
 some of the best evidence we have in 
 favor of this says that the Nazis 
 started to really go after exotic 
 technology that would have been inspired 
 by UAP that was inspired by 
 gravitational fields. So, some of it may 
 not have been UAP inspired, but they 
 were trying crazy stuff with science to 
 win the war. We were trying crazy stuff 
 with science, too. like blowing up an 
 atom. So, they were trying all sorts of 
 other things, too, right? And that gets 
 very dicey. And we'll maybe talk about 
 this more in the last episode because as 
 the allies come in, all that stuff 
 disappears and then things start showing 
 up here in the US and things start 
 showing up in Russia. But there were 
 real technical innovations underway, 
 namely the V1 and V2 rockets, which 
 would then go on to change the world. 
 And there were rumors among a lot of 
 allies that there was psychic warfare 
 going on. And that's not hard to 
 believe. There was definitely dowsing 
 happening and some other mystical 
 technology there. Dlock is the bell in 
 German. And this is believed by many, 
 including me, to have been a bell-shaped 
 object that the Nazis were trying to 
 build. I don't know why it's that hard 
 to believe that they were trying to 
 build it. But then that delock ends up 
 getting wrapped up in a bunch of lore 
 and myth afterwards that I think makes 
 it sound less believable. Like they 
 believe it actually may have been the 
 Kexburg crash. And it does resemble the 
 Kexsburg crash. But we don't know. Like 
 I think if you just stopped at saying 
 the Nazis were building exotic 
 technology in Poland, you're dead on 
 right and you're at the beginning of a 
 good 
 investigation that Oh, so this so this 
 Del Glock was a was a some type of 
 vessel. Del Glock was a alleged I'm I'm 
 going to still say alleged because there 
 isn't hard proof of this, but it was an 
 an alleged reproduction UFO vehicle that 
 was shaped like a bell. Oh, okay. Okay. 
 Okay. And it used some sort of field 
 technology in order to levitate, but 
 they were using some sort of field 
 technology and they weren't able to 
 control it or steer it and it was 
 irdiating everyone who was getting close 
 to it. Oh jeez. That's not that hard to 
 believe. Yeah. Yeah. And that was all 
 alleged to have happened in this complex 
 called Darice in Poland where we know it 
 existed. And all this stuff is in the 
 notes that we have up on the website for 
 this episode, right? And you can't go 
 without, you know, mentioning how 
 Mousolini also had his top scientist 
 trying to develop a super weapon, right? 
 And just recently, an adviser to JFK 
 named Harold Mulgrim gave a deathbed 
 confession and an interview and said 
 that uh the 1933 Magenta crash was real 
 and that he was aware of it. the Italy 
 crash that Dave Rush said that we got 
 post World War II. So there's another 
 person who who was in a position to know 
 saying that this was true. So they would 
 have had exposure to exotic technology. 
 And that's not hard to believe. There's 
 reverse engineering programs in the US. 
 There's reverse engineering programs in 
 Russia. There's reverse engineering 
 programs in China. Germany was a major 
 superpower at the time. Yep. Yeah, it's 
 understandable. So, as the war wears on, 
 the Allies are closing in on Himmler and 
 Hitler. Himmler attempts to cut a deal 
 with the Allies, but he's also 
 controlling the concentration camps, and 
 he tries to use some of the people 
 within the concentration camps as 
 hostages. And it doesn't go well. The 
 allies don't believe him. So, then he 
 tries to kill everyone in the 
 concentration camps. And he knows that 
 he's the jig is up. Yeah. And Hitler 
 finds out about it. Oh, yeah. Adolf 
 finds out about it. And he had called 
 Hinrich Himmler the loyal Heinrich all 
 the way up to the end. And Heinrich's 
 identity was very wrapped up in his 
 belief in Adolf Hitler as the Tutonic 
 myth and his Germany's destiny. So in 
 his final days, what he gets is Adolf 
 Hitler telling him that he's a traitor 
 to him, Adolf and that he's also a 
 traitor to Germany and strips him of all 
 of his rank and titles. So Himmler tries 
 to disappear into the crowd of German 
 soldiers that's leaving, but he gets 
 recognized. As they're getting ready to 
 question him, he eats a cyanide pill and 
 dies. And then we know how it ends for 
 Hitler. Yep. Or do we? to the head or do 
 we? Because the evidence that Hitler 
 died in that bunker is very light. After 
 the collapse of the war, what happens to 
 the Derice complex program? What happens 
 to all this Nazi knowledge of how to 
 propagandize and reprogram a society? 
 What happens to all of their psychic 
 research that we know that they were 
 doing? what happens to a lot of these 
 strange objects that they had in 
 recovered those get split up. Those get 
 split up between the US and World War 
 II, right? Just like everything else. 
 So, I think we'll get into that in I 
 think we'll get our third episode here. 
 But it's interesting. to uh you know uh 
 part of this discussion is that you know 
 it really is kind of this transformation 
 when we talk about the 
 occult how they begin and why they begin 
 and how they can kind of transform into 
 like you said the big sea cult where 
 where it becomes a power structure. It 
 becomes it it it becomes almost like 
 something that people internalize at 
 first and then it becomes externalized 
 through a power structure and then of 
 course abused. Yeah. I think what's 
 super relevant here and that I didn't 
 know what I found about the real history 
 of the Thu society and their influence 
 and both how important they were at the 
 beginning and then how important it was 
 that Hitler shunted them to the side and 
 then took control of the theology 
 himself. 
 Right. Right. And we didn't dive fully 
 in we didn't dive too much into the 
 Holocaust every but I think everything 
 that we talked about was necessary for 
 the Holocaust to happen and it doesn't 
 get talked about enough right because 
 what it did was it gave the people of 
 Germany who were involved in this 
 activity a spiritual belief that would 
 allow them to do inhuman things. Yeah. 
 One of the reasons that there were 
 concentration camps and gas chambers was 
 because when Himmler was starting and he 
 was the eugenicist, right, in addition 
 to his occult beliefs and when he was 
 starting with the SS and having them 
 killed people that he thought was 
 undesirable, which would have been Jews, 
 which would have been Romani gypsies, 
 which would have been homosexuals, which 
 would have been a lot of people. Mhm. 
 What he was having the SS do was they 
 were going behind the main 
 army and then there would be death 
 squads that would just put people to 
 death by gunfire at the end. Women, 
 children, 
 innocents and it was messing up his 
 soldiers so bad afterwards. 
 And then Henrik Kimmler goes to visit 
 one of those shooting sprees and what he 
 sees disturbs him so bad that he can't 
 really deal with it for days. So what he 
 comes up with is a way to industrialize 
 death. 
 And that becomes the gas chambers, 
 right? 
 how that all relates to the occult. They 
 were already killing 
 people face to 
 face and you don't have people 
 committing that type of 
 genocide with Christian beliefs, right? 
 You had to separate them from their 
 beliefs in order to get them to commit 
 atrocities. 
 Right. Right. And it takes something on 
 a spiritual level to remove people from 
 their ethics in that way. 
 Yeah. It's not just pure loyalty. Um 
 there's got to be a little bit more to 
 it to get to gain and uh and hold on to 
 that loyalty, you know, especially when 
 it came to the lower income workers who 
 were already prone to belief. They were 
 already big into belief. They were 
 already believing all sorts of spiritual 
 things and they were easy targets. Yeah, 
 for sure. For a very evil agenda. 
 So, yeah, it's that's pretty interesting 
 when you when you talk about 
 industrializing that type of genocide. I 
 think that um and you know, even uh 
 loyalty, the concept of loyalty that's 
 still prevalent today. I mean, that that 
 is something you could see. I'm not 
 saying genocide's prevalent today. I'm 
 just saying the same uh imaginations. 
 Yeah. The same process. And man, I my my 
 my big line is, oh, you know, we live in 
 extraordinary times, man. Yeah. But they 
 they could go south real quick, right? 
 And understanding how people can get 
 wrapped up in cults 
 and the occult through these means, I 
 think, can help all of us today. Yeah. 
 And and I like I like to use the 
 parallel with technology too because I I 
 think the radio the public the first 
 time you know Nazis were using public 
 broadcasts live broadcast on radio that 
 was a big deal that that fascinated 
 people that brought people in and you 
 could you know you see parallels now 
 today we have these new technologies 
 emerging memes and they memes of course 
 yeah that that's that's the new that's a 
 new method and now they're AI AI 
 generated did memes too, you know. Yeah, 
 that's a good preview for the next 
 episode where we talk about where these 
 ideas went after the war and how they're 
 impacting us today. Yeah, definitely. 
 Well, as always, you know, we could have 
 talked about this for hours, but there 
 was so much in World War II we didn't 
 get into. I feel like this was so 
 abbreviated. I was I months of stuff and 
 I'm like, uh, but it was a good 
 overview. Yeah, it's definitely a good 
 uh overview and uh we'll continue this 
 in the next episode. Thanks a lot, Rob. 
 Thank you, Buds. Looking forward to the 
 next one. Thanks for uh listening, 
 everyone. And again, you can uh see a 
 lot of this information we talk about on 
 14wwinds.com. Thanks y'all. Thanks for 
 listening. Heat. Heat. 
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