The Illusion of Reality: UAP, Consciousness, and the Hidden Control System

“The world you see is not the world that is.”

In this episode of Fortean Winds, Bones and RamX dive deeper into Episode 26: Hacking UFO Understanding, expanding on the question: Are we failing to perceive reality as it truly is?

Through the lens of Plato’s Cave, Donald Hoffman’s theories, and quantum physics, we explore:

• The Perceptual Firewall—Why reality isn’t as physical as we think.
• The Algorithmic Nature of the Universe—Are we living inside a structured system?
• The Role of UAPs—Are they independent intelligences, or are they part of the system itself?
• What “They” Need From Us—Why perception itself might be the key to their existence.
• The Trickster Element—Why interactions with non-human intelligences are unreliable, and what that tells us.
• Psionics & the Human Factor—Why some people experience more high strangeness than others.

This episode peels back another layer of the onion, exploring how belief systems reinforce our reality—and what happens when we remove those blinders.

🎙️ Plus, RamX previews Fortean Winds’ upcoming guest, a historian and experiencer, who will kick off a discussion on World War II and the Nazi occult empire.

Are you ready to see the shadows for what they really are?

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;26;13
Fortean Host
Welcome to the Fortean Winds podcast, where we talk about UFOs and all the related high strangeness. I'm bones and with us, as always, is Ram. Hey. Hey, everybody. Hey, Ram. So here we are again, doing another podcast. So today we're going to talk about, we're going to go back and talk about episode 26, which was, you know, hacking UFO understanding.

00;00;26;13 - 00;00;47;01
Fortean Host
Right? Yeah. And and that has a lot to do with basically our reality and, and what we perceive. And I know we get a lot of feedback from that episode, and there's a lot there that needs to be unpacked and maybe even an Easter egg. Can you call it a mystery? Yeah, maybe even a UAP. Who knows? Yeah.

00;00;47;01 - 00;01;09;00
Fortean Host
Here you go. Tis the season. So you can imagine how difficult of a time I had. Our 14 winds tradition is to bury the lead. But this was a tough one to bury the lead on, because we're going to talk about a lot today. And I think we're going to peel back the next layer of the onion of what UAPs look like and what our reality looks like.

00;01;09;02 - 00;01;39;01
Fortean Host
If you remove dogma, right. This can be really a mooring for people. As I mentioned last time, as UN mooring, as having an encounter. This is, you know, things about your confidence and religion and science and materialism and government and our culture are foundational. And if you start to perceive them as being manipulated, you may go through a grieving process.

00;01;39;03 - 00;02;07;21
Fortean Host
Sure. Naturally. But it doesn't mean they're not real. And we're going to talk about all of it today. So the way I would like to bury the lead that I decided on was to give you a brief summary of Plato's Allegory of the cave. Plato was a philosopher in the Greek Republic. He described people who had spent their entire lives chained by their necks and ankles to face an inner wall of cave.

00;02;07;24 - 00;02;29;24
Fortean Host
And there was a fire in between them in the outside of the cave, and the people on the outside of the cave could make shadows on the wall. And as they did, they would name the shadows. And to the prisoners inside of the cave that became their entire world. Right? That's all they could perceive. That is what these shadows.

00;02;29;26 - 00;02;57;10
Fortean Host
Well said. That is all they could perceive. So the shadows represent distorted, blurry copies of reality that we see through our rudimentary five senses, which can only perceive three dimensional reality. The other objects we can only perceive through reason. So today we're going to use a little bit of reason, and we're going to try to understand those shadows a little better.

00;02;57;13 - 00;03;30;18
Fortean Host
But let's start with those shadows because that's what our science is describing. That's what our science is unpacking for us. We're just picking apart the shadows. What is our universe, really? My favorite commentator is a cognitive neuroscientist named Donald Hoffman. And I really like his work because he focuses on perception as a cognitive neuroscientist. And what he has found through a series of mathematical proofs is that our reality is not as physical as we think.

00;03;30;24 - 00;03;51;02
Fortean Host
And this aligns with what's being found in quantum physics, what's being found through the answers to riddles of Schrödinger's cat, that the cat is neither alive or dead. It exists in a state of potential energy until someone views it, and then what they perceive cat is right. But before that, the cat exists in a state of potential energy.

00;03;51;02 - 00;04;14;09
Fortean Host
It's not there. Mars isn't there. If no one's viewing it. Right. A tree in a forest is not there. If no one is viewing it. Right. So we're kind of just the holders of reality. If it wasn't for us to perceive it, it wouldn't be there. Correct. We live in the third dimension. Those dimensions are length, width and height.

00;04;14;12 - 00;04;38;23
Fortean Host
The fourth dimension is time. We have confirmed, as have many UFO researchers, that these beings operate independently of time. Therefore, we all know that these beings are interdimensional. If we discovered life in the second dimension and we tried to float a balloon down there, all they would see is a big red circle surrounding them and they would say, how did you get here?

00;04;38;23 - 00;04;57;12
Fortean Host
And how do you keep moving this big red circle from one place to another? We'd say, oh, well, it's full of air and big and tall, and we fill it up. And they would have no concept that. Right? There we go. Oh, your gods, we get it. But there's no way to explain what height is to that. There's no words, right?

00;04;57;15 - 00;05;26;15
Fortean Host
And at the same time, we can kind of go through barriers that they cannot. Right. And if they're independent of time, they don't exist in a linear system. So everything that I say, our communication, our technology is all built on a linear system. And there is an underlying pattern to that linear system. One of the examples that I would point to is the Fibonacci sequence, which is appears in DNA helixes and flowers.

00;05;26;17 - 00;05;52;21
Fortean Host
The golden ratio. The golden ratio. Yeah, yeah. Lots of repeating patterns in mathematics and life that point to the fact that it is a structure. And that structure exists very much like a program, the computer program. Okay. And I think that is the easiest analogy for me given my background to explain what this UFO phenomenon is. First, so when you say computer program, basically an algorithm, right?

00;05;52;24 - 00;06;29;20
Fortean Host
Correct. It's an algorithm. Yes. And I think you would view God as the programmer or the source or the creator, and then that God has a bunch of things that have the abilities of AI agents, and they are independently intelligent, and these are able to get into the program and manipulate the algorithm at will. Okay. Yeah. And these are what we seeing with the UAP phenomena based on now a lot of research with direct first hand contact these I can say that it's a mixed bag.

00;06;29;23 - 00;07;01;18
Fortean Host
They definitely get the feeling that they're independently intelligent. But there's also good ones. There's bad ones, there's neutral ones, and there's trickster ones. Well, first thing we have to understand is that our reality is not as physical as we think, and it requires our perception in order for it to exist. So Falk had always wondered about our mysterious usefulness, and I think I have a pretty good idea of what that is now, which is that they need us to perceive this reality in order for it to exist.

00;07;01;20 - 00;07;29;10
Fortean Host
It's all sitting around as potential energy. Unless you grounded, conscious, sentient beings into matter that could perceive that reality which is somehow what happened to us. So now we're conscious, sentient beings that are inside of matter that allows us to perceive matter, and then the world around us exists. They can't be flying saucers unless there's a sky right.

00;07;29;10 - 00;07;47;20
Fortean Host
And that's that's kind of the, How does that perceptual firewall kind of fit in? I mean, that's what you're talking. So hacking UFOs and the perceptual firewall led me to a series of discoveries afterwards that made me very confident. What I'm telling you right now. I think at the end of that episode, we were left with the question of where do we go from here?

00;07;47;22 - 00;08;23;17
Fortean Host
And several people reached out to me and said, well, what would where do we go next? I said, I don't know, but given time and a little more research, I started to see the pattern. And here's what makes it so difficult to understand that it's a pattern is that it is a control system. There is a underlying algorithmic like structure to our reality that is being enforced by our beliefs, because that creates our perception, which creates this reality, which creates this three dimensional reality does not exist unless we're looking at it, folks.

00;08;23;20 - 00;08;44;04
Fortean Host
They need us for all of this. And I think they're looking for psionics, because psionics have a greater influence over all of this than the rest of us. So instead of unpacking the perceptual firewall episode first, I thought we would make it worse and then unpack it. Might as well get the bad, like all all of the hard stuff out of the way.

00;08;44;10 - 00;09;02;08
Fortean Host
But it gets easier now. And I thought we would do that first because now unpacking it is less hard. We know science still works, and we know we still need science because we live in a world of shadows. So if we're ever going to figure out something from outside of the world of shadows, then I'll work in the world of shadows.

00;09;02;09 - 00;09;22;29
Fortean Host
We're going to need the science of shadows. Definitely. And then, as far as religion is concerned, I had a bunch of things I was going to tell you, but I decided to just say, take the wind. Take. Take the wind. Guys. Right.

00;09;23;01 - 00;09;47;23
Fortean Host
All those people calling us anti-religious and stuff. Hey, hey, hey, here we are. We're calling the game. Take it. There is something else out there that is much greater than us. And if you look at religious texts, what they're sort of describing is a simulation. And it's just this ban on that. What do you mean? Well, God created the world and it was you got bored.

00;09;47;28 - 00;10;07;14
Fortean Host
He's like, oh, okay. And let's take the Christian text, for example. And the Westerner, right. So God created the world and he said, okay, need some people. And then he put them in there, and then he said, okay, well let's add some good and evil and get some drama gone and some free will, and let's see how it all plays out.

00;10;07;14 - 00;10;29;21
Fortean Host
I mean, that's a simulation and God and all the associated beings are independent of time. So even priests would say, well, God's already won the end. The end of times has already came. God's already won. The battle's already done. Yeah. Just sounds like a God sandbox and having some fun. Well, Kyle called it the, Disneyland of the gods.

00;10;29;22 - 00;10;53;00
Fortean Host
That's what he thought. Our. Okay, our reality was. And he's right. I mean, you know, when one casualty of all of this, my interest in space has gone way down since I've started this. Which is really funny, right? They're like, you're a UFO researcher. Aren't you? All caught up on what's happening with the James Webb? And now I look at that.

00;10;53;00 - 00;11;24;04
Fortean Host
It's just it's it's interesting. It's still interesting. It's still fascinating. I still love it. But you're just looking at the expanse of our three dimensional reality, right? Right. And I think far more interesting things are happening right here in between us and whatever our greater reality is. But how far do we go? I mean, because you're talking about kind of a, reciprocity between us and these nachos, right?

00;11;24;04 - 00;12;02;09
Fortean Host
I mean, so they need us in. Do we need them? You saying no? That's a great question. Yeah. You know, I've never considered that. I it doesn't sound like it right there. There was no initial thought to me. You know, there are religious traditions that make a lot of sense. I'll tell you one thing that seems very clear in all of this is that there is an afterlife and you don't, you know, so maybe when we leave here, we get to go become, you know, one of the agents on the outside or something like that.

00;12;02;11 - 00;12;27;24
Fortean Host
Right, right. So we did find that out through a lot of research into poltergeist activity and experiencers who are in touch with both spirit guides and people who have passed on mediums who have done this sort of work. Yeah, there's an afterlife. And Einstein thought he could build a machine that could talk to the dead, like he was really on board with this whole idea.

00;12;27;27 - 00;12;47;28
Fortean Host
It's famous UFO quote where Guy said that the CIA told him that they had shut down entire branches of physics. And I always wondered if that was true, and I could think of two reasons why they would do that. One would be that someone would find, you know, world ending technology or time bending technology that would screw us all up.

00;12;48;04 - 00;13;14;04
Fortean Host
And the other would be that they found evidence that we live in a simulation. Right? Right. So they took other avenues. Yeah. They just kind of threw us off the set and all of this supernatural folkloric trappings that are around religion, I would say, are red herrings for what is underneath of it, which is a system. It's, it's there's it's describing reality.

00;13;14;08 - 00;13;39;15
Fortean Host
It's a code and a system. It's it's a series of symbols that describe our reality. And they're all saying the same thing. They're like, there's a creator. There's something in between you and the creator which are intelligent. And this is not your only reality. Physics is saying the same thing, right? But a portion of people are always going to focus on the shadows, because that's all we have.

00;13;39;17 - 00;13;58;10
Fortean Host
It's times like this in the work where I go, do people really need to know, like I think they have a right to know? I'm glad we're telling them. That's why we never monetized or did anything so that we could get to this point and say, there are experiencers out there that want to know what the hell this what's going on?

00;13;58;12 - 00;14;21;01
Fortean Host
And those those are the people that I'm talking to now. And I think our mission has changed a little bit. It's like these people have a right to know and just to reground. One other thing that I wanted to clear up on that UFO hacking up. I called one of the gates Hollywood movies and government psyops. So I want to unpack that a little bit, because I think that that sounds a little conspiratorial.

00;14;21;03 - 00;14;48;04
Fortean Host
What I mean by Hollywood movies, first of all, in our fiction overall, is that all of it is influenced by our religious text. It's all influenced by the stories of the gods. You're familiar with Joseph Campbell and the hero of A Thousand Faces? Yes, of course. Familiar with his work, definitely with, you know, explaining Jung's, archetypes and also basically explaining a formula for folkloric, stories.

00;14;48;06 - 00;15;16;12
Fortean Host
Right, exactly. That was was famously used in Hollywood for, Star Wars. Precisely. And then Star Wars was so successful that every film after that followed the same exact beats from Joseph Campbell as a hero 1000 face, right where he's become a formula. It is. It's part of the formula. And, Hollywood screenwriters tell you there's something like 7 or 9 stories that the studios allow you to write, and that's it.

00;15;16;14 - 00;15;36;03
Fortean Host
And if you look at every movie, really? Yeah, there's one of those 7 or 9 stories, and these are all old stories that are based on originally based on the gods. And then someone iterated on them in every century. That's where our fiction comes from. I don't mean that everyone's getting into a back room and saying, how do we keep the conspiracy going?

00;15;36;03 - 00;16;04;13
Fortean Host
That's not how it works, right? And then as far as government disinformation, we know how that works. And they have gotten involved in Hollywood and they have subverted all this. But that's a big clue because you go, wait, every world leader that takes control, be it through an election or a military coup. Do they get read in by the aliens and now become part of the conspiracy?

00;16;04;16 - 00;16;27;07
Fortean Host
No, of course not. But yet they're all in on it. That's a huge clue. So both things are true. This is what you're always looking at in the world of intelligence. Both things. Sometimes six things are true. And then you go, okay, that's a clue. World leaders are changing all the time, and yet they're all staying in on the conspiracy to keep all of this quiet.

00;16;27;09 - 00;16;51;10
Fortean Host
So why is that? It's because they need to maintain control and stability in some wild variable like this, in their reality that they can't control and feel like they can't help people with. Right. Just upsets the applecart. Yeah. I mean, you can understand that as a as a leader, you know, the number one task of, of a leader is to keep their people safe, right?

00;16;51;13 - 00;17;14;01
Fortean Host
And the last thing they want to do is tell everyone that there's something out there that's out of our control. And they. And they can't help us with it. That's right. I mean, no one wants to admit it. Yeah. If you throw out all of that dogma and you look at our reality without those blinders, that that's what you see.

00;17;14;02 - 00;17;34;20
Fortean Host
You see a world that is potential energy. And then it takes us in order to realize that potential energy into a universe. And there are things that are outside of us that are also sentient and conscious. And we can talk about those guys for a minute because we've kind of put a pin in, where are they from for now?

00;17;34;22 - 00;18;08;09
Fortean Host
And we can move on to who are they? A massive amount of experiencers out there sharing their stories, and the story is all being remarkably consistent. We can say certain things about the patterns of behavior. For one, they are independently intelligent. They are capable of having bio robots. They're capable of spotting autonomous form. Some of them seem smarter than others, but at the heart of this, we're dealing with entities that are independently intelligent.

00;18;08;11 - 00;18;42;29
Fortean Host
Their interactions with us range from benevolent or helpful or guide for to benign to trickster or impish, or to downright malevolent. And that's the spectrum. Those last who end up getting conflated in demon and fairy folklore. Impish thing ends up being fairy, where the the voices kind of blow up your life. The demon thing is saying evil things to you and making you and people around you sick, or causing other malevolent harm to your life.

00;18;43;01 - 00;19;05;17
Fortean Host
If you happen to be an experience or like Lucinda and some other people, we're going to talk to you end up hearing a lot of those different voices, and you end up having to discern which ones are which. People like Lucinda and our next guest, doctor Bruce Solheim, have been dealing with this their whole life. So their experience initiated them.

00;19;05;19 - 00;19;30;09
Fortean Host
People who are a cultist that end up having what we would call human initiated contact. The smart ones at least get initiated and they understand what they're dealing with before they go in so that they're not at the mercy of the supernatural lotto. And they're not just hoping for a good one or a neutral one, so that they can see if so-called aliens really exist.

00;19;30;11 - 00;20;00;01
Fortean Host
Right. And they're and they're selective somewhat. I remember last episode listened to talked about that. You know, you can't just, be an experiencer that, that just accepts everything that comes to you. You have to have a filter on. It's right. Discernment. It goes beyond critical thinking. Right. And that discernment only comes with either knowledge or wisdom through experience.

00;20;00;03 - 00;20;28;06
Fortean Host
So what's happening today is that people are taking something like what we describe in the alien abductions. This which article and they've actually optimized it. So they're able to, through a process, receive voices just like Lucinda does. And through this a lot of people are having experiences that only wanted to see if aliens really existed or not.

00;20;28;10 - 00;20;51;14
Fortean Host
And then they're hearing voices for the first time, real voices that are responding to their questions, and they're telling them useful things about their lives. And it's getting them very excited, and it makes them feel special. And then some of them will enhance their psi abilities. Since we can all remote view. Now it makes you an even better remote viewer and that makes you feel even more special.

00;20;51;17 - 00;21;10;04
Fortean Host
And then it turns you on a mission and it says you are special and you are on a mission to save the world. And that is never true. And the person blows up their entire life trying to do it right. This is exactly what John Keil said to happen to Joseph Smith. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, it's a it's a tragedy.

00;21;10;06 - 00;21;35;01
Fortean Host
It's a never ending tragedy. Yeah, it's a folkloric tragedy. The phenomenon gets a religion, but you get your life blown up, right? Now, this happens in a not small amount of cases. It is not the majority. Neither are malevolent hauntings. And that's enough. That's enough where people are like. Sure, I'll try crack. Right. Right. And I don't like describing it that way.

00;21;35;03 - 00;21;55;03
Fortean Host
But that would be what it is like if you're not initiated, right? Yeah, that makes sense. So that's your PSA for the day. They're all big boys and girls. But what I want you to know is the patterns of interaction. So you would know at least that what you're getting into. And then you're hearing multiple voices. There are multiple entities contacting you.

00;21;55;03 - 00;22;15;14
Fortean Host
And people start this with a technology, and then they start seeing orbs, and then the voices start happening on their own. This is what being a full time experience or like a loose end or a doctor person will talk to next is like, and they're not coming from Mars. They like to say that they're not coming from Orion's Belt.

00;22;15;15 - 00;22;34;02
Fortean Host
Okay. We just discussed what reality is, and that's why they're always saying that stuff. They don't want us to know. Right? And this is what the beings say who are being honest. Like you're like, how much will they really help me in my life? Will they help me get money? I have never heard of that. Maybe it's happened and people just don't tell.

00;22;34;03 - 00;22;53;15
Fortean Host
I have never personally heard of these things. Helping you get money, helping you win the lottery. What they say is that's not how the game works. That's what the honest ones say. We can't tell you that's not how the game works. So spirit guides tend to provide wisdom and things like that that I mean that's that's your best case scenario.

00;22;53;22 - 00;23;24;28
Fortean Host
We've already covered the worst. I'm not going to go through it again. And I suppose, you know, through history. We do have shamans who probably in some sense, psychic mediums or I can't you can't assume all that, but I think you can. But yeah. And they were, very much, leaders. Yeah, in certain civilizations. Yeah. It'd be good if we could start improving this, acknowledging it, and then improving our own advanced intuition.

00;23;25;00 - 00;23;47;22
Fortean Host
Because you got to wonder. Look, there's things like astral projection, which is a more fully realized form of remote viewing. There's big debates about whether that's lucid dreaming or whatever, but you're going into a place where there is no reality like ours. And then people in these astral projections are sometimes seeing things that they go, okay, that was exactly like our reality.

00;23;47;22 - 00;24;11;17
Fortean Host
And other times they're like, it's not. It's more like a DMT trip. And these things are remarkably consistent. They're now doing DMT extended state studies and they're just like astral projection. Oh that's wild. So what I really didn't want to happen was that people become unmoored by this. And I mean lose yourself. And that even includes religion. If you were in the pew last Sunday, I hope you get back in the pew this Sunday.

00;24;11;22 - 00;24;33;10
Fortean Host
If you love science like I do, I hope you still love science, but don't let these things take your identity. If this is our reality and this is all we have, then let's make the best of it. Anyone calling it a reptile soul prison needs to get pictures of my dog. I'll send you video of him using his butt to try sledding for the first time.

00;24;33;12 - 00;24;57;27
Fortean Host
You don't think we're in a reptile soul prison anymore, right? This does get us to the point where we're sort of at another ledge. You know, when we got to this point last year. And it's very interesting that all of this happened in and around the same time as those major insights we got from last year. And it was almost like to the week that the series of events happened.

00;24;57;27 - 00;25;16;09
Fortean Host
And then so last year, we went off the air for a while and we were like, all right, you got to take a break after peeling off another layer of this onion. And I don't know how many more layers of the onion were capable of peeling off this humans. So I would like to just talk to some more people like we did with Lucinda last time.

00;25;16;09 - 00;25;38;23
Fortean Host
What do you think? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great idea. It's only going to expand our knowledge. I mean, there's nothing wrong with exploring any of this. And there's nothing wrong with disbelieving. There's nothing wrong with believing. As long as you don't let it consume you. You still have to have a level of objectivity. Yes. If there's one thing I hope people take from this is to not get lost in all this.

00;25;38;29 - 00;26;03;00
Fortean Host
I feel like a lot of people were looking for answers to their lives in this. Right. And the answers that you're looking for in your life are not here. This is a whole other reality. And these beings are like, nope, not here. And the more parasitic ones are just trying to take your experience from you, your physical experience from you, and have it through your eyes.

00;26;03;02 - 00;26;23;08
Fortean Host
Enjoy your physical experience. Focus on the things you want in life. But if this interest you like, get interested in us. Maybe we got some of our answers and allows us to focus on the things we should be focused on. Right, right. So you and I talk a lot about how to handle guests, because we don't want to lose track of our conversation.

00;26;23;08 - 00;26;57;10
Fortean Host
We love our core listeners who are infinitely patient and have listened to us learn how to podcast over 28 episodes. Right. So we don't want to lose track of the conversation that we're having. So what I have asked for, and our first guest is going to be a good sport and try the format with us is they're going to cover a topic with us that we've discussed, as well as a get to know you session, because I don't want to be a show where people would come on and just repeat the same talking points that they would say on other podcasts, right?

00;26;57;16 - 00;27;14;18
Fortean Host
I don't blame people. Easy to do. It's easy to do. And I don't blame people for doing that, because that's how you get your book out or whatever it is, your message out. But we're not that kind of show, and we don't want to be. And I should mention I just made on another podcast called Super Normalized, which will come out in April.

00;27;14;21 - 00;27;37;21
Fortean Host
And hopefully I said things on there that I haven't said before. And I just want to say I won't go on a podcast unless I feel like I can do that. So if I have said no or maybe later to your podcast, it's because I can't do that yet and I respect you and your audience too much to just go up there and repeat some talking points, because we're not monetized in any way.

00;27;37;22 - 00;27;53;02
Fortean Host
I don't have nothing to sell. Like the reason we did this was because we said people who are out there struggling for answers should have a right to them. And I think we've maybe fulfilled it for now. I hope.

00;27;53;04 - 00;28;18;03
Fortean Host
So we'll talk to some guests. We'll talk to a lot more experiencers. So it's not just us telling you this. And our first guest is not only an experiencer, but also a history professor who's going to help us kick off our discussion of World War two and the Nazi occult empire. Very, very cool. So I mean, we need to, hear from you how you kind of came, came about all these, like, from the occult, these conclusions.

00;28;18;05 - 00;29;02;02
Fortean Host
Yeah, right. Okay, so. Yeah. Those occult articles were a good starting point to start understanding the comp mutational nature of the universe. Oh, okay. And there's also artificial intelligence. So thanks. That sounds good. Yeah. Like you can just say it's ongoing. Yeah. It's ongoing. It's not really. Here we go. Kind of done. I said okay we're going to have to go out and tell people this and somehow.

00;29;02;04 - 00;29;17;28
Fortean Host
And I think we just do. Then we think we did. But, we'll do more. Okay. Yeah, we'll just keep on packing up. Yeah, yeah. So that was the Easter egg I spoke of earlier.

00;29;18;01 - 00;29;36;17
Fortean Host
But I think that's a good, that's a good place to stop. Just to thank everyone for listening, I you mean a lot to us both. And, and for those who are first time listeners, you could, connect with us at 14 wins.com. Oh, yeah. And check out the YouTube. We've got a bunch of new videos out there.

00;29;36;17 - 00;30;04;24
Fortean Host
That's right. Yep, yep. YouTube channels, putting up, videos. Check them out. Thanks, y'all. Thanks for listening. Thanks, everyone. Take care. You.

00;30;04;26 - 00;30;25;22
Fortean Host
Know.