The Mystery of Supernatural Possession

We dive into the remarkably creepy and confusing world of supernatural possession with our special guest Van Gogh, who witnessed a couple strange possession events.  You can learn more about possession by following some of the research we outline in our article on supernatural possesion.

Transcript

[Music] 
 hey everyone welcome to the Fortean Winds
 podcast where we discuss the UFO 
 phenomenon and all of its Associated 
 High strangeness I'm Bones and with us 
 as always is the notorious Ramx hey hey 
 everybody hey Ram and also we have a 
 special guest uh that's going to join 
 our uh discussion on possession welcome 
 van hey so let's let's get into this 
 possession topic be uh right after we we 
 have to discuss the current events that 
 we discussed last episode and that's the 
 NASKA mummies yeah the The Mummy story 
 continues to evolve and I don't know 
 what they are and I don't know that we 
 ever will um so there's been some more 
 DNA tests done on the Peruvian mummies 
 um just a quick recap a couple months 
 ago there was a UFO researcher and a 
 scientist that brought some mummies from 
 Peru into the Mexican Congress and they 
 said that they were evidence of 
 Otherworldly bodies and those bodies 
 were under a CAT scan and they found 
 that they were one body and not stitched 
 together so they are human they are 
 about a thousand years old and that's 
 why we may never know so there has been 
 some DNA analysis done and the halflife 
 of human DNA is around 512 years maybe 
 520 I I found a few different but it was 
 somewhere between 500 and 
 550 and so the the odds of us knowing 
 what this are and definitively is very 
 low it's basically like looking at a 
 picture that is half gone and saying the 
 half that's gone included an alien right 
 but you you you mentioned them being 
 human I mean can so we are we going to 
 call them human now or just still 
 humanoids because we don't really know 
 100% right right so that's why these 
 things it's not right to call them 
 debunked either they're just unknown um 
 they are weird yeah there and and some 
 of the DNA strands were weird you know 
 you we saw something this morning about 
 uh the fact that the DNA looked like it 
 was from 
 Myanmar they were found in Peru yeah 
 very strange so we don't know um I think 
 it those bodies are worthy of as much 
 study as possible but I don't know how 
 much more is going to be possible given 
 the the degrade of of the DNA right 
 right so we really don't know what the 
 next step is yeah so uh that allows us 
 to maybe move on to the next story which 
 we're going to open up a big one today 
 uh possession and so why were we looking 
 at possession at all I mean we're UFO 
 researchers and we got into this really 
 to figure out how UFOs flew and that led 
 us to realize that there is a Associated 
 High strangeness with UFOs and if you 
 listen to any of our other episodes I 
 think you've you've picked this up you 
 get you have a UFO encounter and then 
 other weird stuff starts to happen and 
 when does possession happen in relation 
 to these cases that came up in the 
 course of the research because we just 
 started asking okay is this related is 
 this related is that related and yeah 
 sure enough there are some cases of UFO 
 sightings that led to evolving and 
 increasing intensity of high strangeness 
 that ended up in possession and I think 
 the best example of that is the reron 
 farm case reron Farm case so everyone 
 can go do some internet searching around 
 that I think you're going to find that 
 there there were multiple witnesses 
 there was a lot of weirdness there was 
 some other evidence involved it's a very 
 credible case it meets our standard of 
 evidence and there was an instance of a 
 possession during that event or all of 
 those events so that was a 
 onetoone direct connection between 
 possession and the UFO phenomenon so 
 that led us down the road the very 
 creepy Road of looking into possession I 
 should say we don't know if it's UFO 
 related we know that there's instances 
 so that's why we're exploring it more 
 and so there are these instances that 
 don't involve UFO possession and 
 possession itself has become a official 
 mental health condition so people fought 
 for a long time to get this into the DSM 
 which is the manual of all these mental 
 health conditions and and then they can 
 start to get addressed they can get 
 research around them other psychiatrists 
 can start to share research so it was a 
 big deal to get possession into the DSM 
 and that's now in there it's a 
 relatively recent Improvement here so 
 there is a very real psychiatric and 
 psychological 
 condition of possession but we're not 
 psychologists and so even though that's 
 fascinating and I think it's worth 
 reading about what really interests us 
 as forts is did anything Supernatural 
 happen during that time and so we found 
 someone who witnessed a supernatural 
 possession and it meets all of our 
 standards of evidence so multiple 
 witness encounter lifelong experience 
 and open to being interviewed so I would 
 like to introduce you to Van go who has 
 experienced a supernatural form of 
 possession and exorcism and I'd like you 
 to tell us a little bit about that yeah 
 sure cool so uh why don't you start at 
 the beginning and just tell us about the 
 one that involved the exorcism I think 
 that's the most drastic case you told me 
 about yeah so uh this is this goes far 
 back when I was like you know young I 
 think I was probably 11 years old was a 
 was a kid um and this happened in a uh 
 in a 
 house where a few people were meeting um 
 it was like you know like this prayer 
 thing you know where people would meet 
 and like pray and like and like read 
 about the Bible and things like that um 
 and during that and that was uh what 
 type of religion I believe you said it 
 was Pentecostal Pentecostal mhm mhm it 
 was Pentecostal so during that time in 
 there you know what I mean it was it was 
 a small mobile home actually just to 
 give you a little more details it was a 
 small mobile home it was a mobile park 
 you know and in there you know there 
 there was like two there was a living 
 room and then uh the bedroom and so for 
 the most part like the kids or the teens 
 you know like we' hang out in the room 
 and then like the adults were you know 
 talking about stuff that we didn't care 
 about you know like religion and praying 
 and whatever sure so at that point you 
 know there uh what I remember was like 
 hearing a commotion you know happening 
 it was mind you the thing this mobile 
 home is like really really really tiny 
 and small so I'm hearing like this whole 
 commotion so every we all like go out to 
 see what's happening and here we are 
 seeing this woman who was a skinny very 
 skinny thin woman who was being held 
 down by I don't know six guys and even 
 at that point she is like levitating 
 from the ground she's not moving her 
 mouth and she's speaking you know she's 
 like talking and it sounds like really 
 weird almost sound like robotic so if 
 you ever seen one of those frogs that 
 really like pull from their throat yeah 
 that's what it look that's what it 
 looked like it sounds so like something 
 from a movie but literally it's like my 
 reality and what I experienced what I 
 saw as a kid um it was really scary you 
 know cuz I've never seen anything like 
 that um and so how did you and the kids 
 react when that we were all scared and 
 there was like you know like my 
 brother's there my sister my mind do my 
 sister's four years younger than I am so 
 she was probably like eight or something 
 like that you know my brother's a year 
 and a half older than I am and then 
 there was like other kids around the 
 same age you know like six seven eight 
 you know um and they're all like we're 
 all seeing this and you know to at some 
 point like an adult got up and like got 
 the younger kids to go back in but like 
 we were still there being nosy like 
 looking at that cuz I mean like you 
 couldn't avoid it it was such a tiny 
 spot you know so I remember my brother 
 and I just like witnessing this whole 
 entire thing as it's happening you know 
 like a few other people there you know 
 like few other kids who were like teens 
 you know were like looking at this whole 
 entire thing happening you know um the 
 whole conversation I can verify that 
 your brother remembers it too mhm so 
 just just just to establish that there's 
 multiple Witnesses right right yeah yeah 
 yeah and so what I remember is seeing 
 this woman 
 uh her eyes were closed they were 
 praying over her and she is just 
 saying you know obscene things uh you 
 know like she's cursing she's saying 
 like you have no power over me you are 
 you know like all these 
 like did she aim anything at any 
 individual in the room or were they all 
 General statements she was aiming it to 
 the person who was praying over her 
 MH yeah she saying anything personal 
 about that person no personal stuff okay 
 other than like you have no power over 
 me you have no control over me um my 
 Legions are strong Satan is strong like 
 all these like things you know um and it 
 was directly Satan devil stuff yeah it 
 was all diabolical stuff um and so like 
 what was going on at that time uh as you 
 know like they're praying for her and 
 like she's this thing is inside of her 
 you know she uh mind you she never 
 opened her eyes her eyes were completely 
 like shut 
 closed um she just kept like kind of 
 wiggling around trying to like get her 
 get people off of her and you know they 
 were just like praying over her like 
 telling this thing that's inside of her 
 like leave her body leave her body leave 
 her body but at some point it went from 
 like her speaking Spanish mind you this 
 woman didn't speak English uh to 
 speaking some weird language that I have 
 no idea what it 
 was did it sound like tongues or did it 
 sound like like an organized Lang it 
 sounded like tongues not tongues like 
 Christian tongues it sounded like like 
 an an like an like a old language I 
 don't even know like maybe Aramaic or 
 something you know what I mean sounded 
 like Words yeah okay but I have no idea 
 what she was saying at all so this this 
 went on for like for like two hours 
 almost until she com you know like 
 completely they kept praying over her 
 and finally like I don't know what 
 happened but they just kept praying 
 really hard over her there was a lot of 
 people praying over her she finally you 
 know took a big deep breath and just was 
 yelling like like ah leave me alone and 
 she just went like ah you know and her 
 body almost like it like puffed up and 
 then it went from being like puffy to 
 just like a like like a big deep breath 
 and she literally collapsed completely 
 collapsed and was there for a few 
 minutes like just 
 collapsed and then they picked her up 
 you know and they like sat her down gave 
 her water and she was completely like 
 tired I mean she was drained 
 exhausted but as was like they kept like 
 talking to her I was like that I mean I 
 don't even know how long we were in this 
 thing you know what I mean like we went 
 for an early lunch or something like 
 that and it was by the time I remember 
 leaving was night so I don't know like 
 you know and of course as kids we like 
 saw that we were scared but then when 
 you're a kid you're just like whatever 
 you like then leave and go out and play 
 you know but I do remember coming back 
 and like they're talking to her and 
 she's talking and uh and hearing my you 
 know going home and then hearing my 
 parents talk about this like she had she 
 had no recollection of what happened 
 like absolutely no clue what happened to 
 her at 
 all so and so she had no idea afterwards 
 can you give us a little did you see her 
 before The Possession mhm yeah she was 
 like a member of the church so I knew 
 who she was oh okay do you remember her 
 demeanor like was she a shy person or 
 out no she was very like outgoing 
 talkative you know her and I kind of 
 connected she was like probably 10 years 
 older than me but we you know she was a 
 Leo I was I'm a Leo you know she was 
 like her birthday was the 14th my 
 birthday is on the 13th you know so I 
 was very like we always had like some 
 sort of connection even though she was 
 like older than me you know you know she 
 was like in her I want to say she was 
 like 25 24 maybe at that time I was 
 11 um but like it was funny cuz we would 
 like hang out and you know when you're 
 at church a lot of it's always like that 
 you know like there's adults that kind 
 of mingle with the kids or the teens and 
 things like that so like you know she 
 was always out outgoing she wasn't like 
 a very shy like you know recluse or 
 depressed or no she was like I was kind 
 of like happy outgoing the the mobile 
 home you were in was that her 
 it was not hers it was not hers it was 
 someone else's home alob home what I 
 will say what she was pointing out 
 too was that there was elephants in that 
 house um and she kept saying like oh 
 these the elephants or whatever like all 
 those elephants that you have are 
 demonic and that's where I guess it was 
 picking it up from so I do remember what 
 you mean elephant 
 chachis chis got it they had elephant 
 chachis in there but as a kid like I 
 remember like see you know and she saw 
 these elephant chachkies and she was 
 making some sort of Association that 
 they were demonic because they were 
 probably idolatry of some sort very 
 interesting and I mean they had a like a 
 ton of elephants but not like they were 
 just like little you know ornaments 
 right like there were like a few 
 ornaments in the living room MH but then 
 there was like um uh you know like they 
 were saying like Okay bring all those 
 like chachis out and like break them or 
 like throw them away you know and I 
 remember that the kids that lived in 
 that mobile home started pulling out 
 elephants from their room like hidden 
 elephants almost like amulets that were 
 like hidden that no one knew where they 
 were so it was kind of trippy that this 
 woman while she's possessed saying like 
 there's 
 these elephants you know that were like 
 like had some sort of thing mind you if 
 you like that seems extremely relevant 
 to me H that seems extremely relevant in 
 this story and the thing is like that 
 that I remember like you know like the 
 couple that owned a mobile home they're 
 working class uh you know like uh the 
 lady worked in in in you know like she 
 was a agriculture person who like you 
 know picks fruits and stuff like that 
 and the husband was a guy who like 
 worked at a mechanic shop 
 and the husband would pick up things 
 from the street you know like just 
 random things from the street constantly 
 just like a you know a person that just 
 likes to pick trash like you see a chair 
 on the side and it'll pick it up so I 
 don't know much more than that detail CU 
 but she wasn't reacting to any 
 individual chachki she she right just it 
 was it was the presence of all of them 
 that was disturbing so that's very 
 interesting um I you know that the last 
 episode we did was around The Hitchhiker 
 phenomenon which is when people go to 
 haunted areas and they pick up things 
 right they pick up some form 
 of what whatever um and in this case uh 
 you're an experiencer right your family 
 your whole family is experiencers right 
 mhhm yeah yeah so this was you've you've 
 encountered other paranormal things lots 
 of them I mean this was not the first ex 
 this is the first Exorcist that I 
 saw ever which I think traumatized me 
 you know as a kid seeing this um because 
 it just looks so fake you know um but 
 it's like it's my reality it's what I 
 experience and um you you know you say 
 to someone else it's just like a thing 
 of a movie because that's all you see it 
 in movies 
 [Music] 
 let's highlight here because you know I 
 want to get into this a little more 
 let's highlight why this was 
 Supernatural so what what are those 
 elements that you found about this was 
 Supernatural so you described the voice 
 her what was supernal her 
 physical not moving the mouth and the 
 voice was coming from somewhere 
 else that and the fact that she's like a 
 very skinny lady and was able to 
 overpower six guys who were holding her 
 hands to waste her her feet her legs 
 they were like on her like she just kept 
 doing like this you know just like like 
 she just kept kind of I mean moving like 
 it almost felt like like someone who had 
 superpowers you know to like remove like 
 just lift these people up and mind you 
 these guys are like some of these guys 
 were like 61 62 chunky guys I'm not 
 talking about like some skinny dudes not 
 these guys were like dudes you know like 
 chunky dudes like married men who like 
 don't work out who just like eat 
 you know and so like like and so to to 
 like for me to see that I was like wow 
 that's insane you know like I'm thinking 
 in my head like what the hell is inside 
 of her you know um the changing of the 
 languages I know this woman only she 
 only spoke English I mean Spanish and 
 like maybe a few English words so like 
 where did that come from you know like 
 and knowing her like I've never heard 
 her make up a language or talk to me in 
 like such a weird language or like even 
 try to like play around like oh ha I 
 know something I know a different 
 language or like a play language you 
 know to try to communicate never MH so 
 that to me was like strange you know um 
 and just the overall like things that 
 were coming out of her mouth you know 
 yeah so this gets reported it it it gets 
 uh reported I started do doing the 
 research for this episode and to do the 
 write up and I I'll be honest the reason 
 I haven't done the write up is this 
 whole subject is creepy and 
 confusing so a few things I want to 
 highlight here number one is that you 
 were in a Pentecostal 
 church and these sorts of things are 
 common but not in the S you normally 
 don't see Supernatural stuff associated 
 with them but you saw lots of people 
 like being in feeling the holy ghost or 
 maybe even having Spirits cast out of 
 them where maybe correct me if I'm wrong 
 but there was nothing Supernatural 
 happening there no right so there 
 there's there's a big difference but 
 there's a belief here there's an there's 
 a belief that all of this 
 happens and then there was a 
 belief in that mobile home when that 
 woman was looking at those elephants 
 MH and and saying I could be infected by 
 a demonic presence so I don't believe 
 that that belief simply translates into 
 some sort of Supernatural 
 Force I think something can pick up on 
 that and the thing is like it it 
 happened to her twice I will remember I 
 do remember that but this time it didn't 
 happen to her so this what the this one 
 time it happened to her outside of the 
 church in someone's home the second time 
 it happened to her at church during 
 prayer 
 time um she the second time was there 
 did was there reason for you to believe 
 that there was something Supernatural 
 happening or no yeah because like she 
 started choking she was like choking 
 she's just and she started foaming from 
 the mouth and then she had her eyes 
 closed and she with her eyes closed she 
 kind of knew how to navigate to get 
 herself from where she was sitting to 
 try to like go and attack the person who 
 was preaching with her eyes closed so 
 like to me it's like how does someone 
 know how to navigate from their chair 
 way back at the church and navigate 
 herself through all the way through in 
 the middle to try to go and attack 
 someone and of course you know the same 
 thing happened again like where they 
 like kind of brought her down and like 
 were holding her down 
 this time it didn't last 2 hours but it 
 last lasted around like an hourish mhm 
 you know um so my suspicion is that if 
 someone like you who is an experiencer 
 and is sensitive to this phenomenon MH 
 is in that environment and starts 
 believing that something like that is 
 possible it becomes far more possible 
 that it's going to happen to you and I 
 just think that's important to to point 
 out based on our research because you 
 know maybe it helps people a little bit 
 mhm mhm I mean it happened to other 
 people you know what I mean like that 
 was just the one experience from that 
 particular woman then it happened to 
 another guy um this guy was a lot more 
 scary 
 because he wasn't as dramatic as her um 
 again but like the pattern was the same 
 of like say curse words different you 
 know this this guy was talking you know 
 he wasn't like the voice wasn't coming 
 from somewhere else but what was strange 
 about this guy was that this the next 
 day when he uh you know when we saw him 
 the next day he had bite marks all over 
 his 
 body you can't bite yourself on the back 
 or on your side you know um which was 
 very strange he had like bite marks and 
 scratch 
 marks um 
 post when this happened to him so um 
 here here here here's a 
 question now you saw a lot these things 
 happen in that Pentecostal Church where 
 people believe in when you you're no 
 longer in that church and and you 
 haven't been for a long time have you 
 encountered it since then no because I'm 
 not in that space I feel like that is 
 super 
 important and that would make someone 
 with a more materialist mindset that 
 really doesn't hold against the evidence 
 go oh well yeah all those people are 
 nuts over there and they they believe in 
 this and that and that's why it happens 
 over there and it doesn't happen over 
 but that's not what we're talking about 
 if and hopefully people have heard you 
 like what we're talking about is even 
 the supernatural stuff seems to require 
 a level of 
 belief participation if you will 
 yeah but you know like for me mind you 
 yes I'm in in I'm like forced to be part 
 of this religion that I didn't choose to 
 you know and but there is a part of me 
 as well that I'm like you know as a 
 teenager you know what I mean like you 
 don't really care you're not part of 
 this you don't want to be part of this 
 situation you're almost Dr like I'm I 
 was being dragged by my parents to be 
 there so for me like I had no connection 
 didn't feel any connection to all of 
 that you know what I mean but because I 
 was there like I I I witnessed these 
 things that sure were they you know were 
 the the two individuals were they pretty 
 zealous were they really into the church 
 would you say there like what was their 
 level of yeah they were into the church 
 but I feel like they were into the 
 church but they were like you know it's 
 kind of hard to explain sometimes cuz 
 like unless you like have been part of 
 uh this sort of culty church you know 
 what I mean and like understand the 
 teachings and D it's kind of hard to to 
 explain but like in the church there is 
 a thing that you know you're either in 
 it or you're not in it right you're 
 either on the bus or off the bus and 
 then you there's people that fall into 
 this category where they're like 
 partially in the church but also 
 partially worldly right that's what you 
 would call them in that church like in 
 in in religion like if you're someone 
 who doesn't believe in God or doesn't go 
 to church you're a person of the world 
 you're a worldly person right that is 
 seen as evil that is seen as negative 
 you're not completely devoted to God or 
 devoted to the church so some of these 
 people are like what you call a foot in 
 and a foot out right and sometimes these 
 people kind of like you know they fell 
 in that category where they were like 
 sometimes in sometimes out you know um 
 they weren't fully like you know like 
 that your your older lady you know 
 sister so and so who like wears her 
 little veil and like literally prays 
 every single day and like goes to church 
 does not miss a day at church even 
 though she's sick there's a lot of 
 ladies like that and a lot of dudes like 
 that and that never happens to them you 
 know right if if from my experience it's 
 always the people that are very like not 
 in it or either like maybe you know 
 sometimes they are H that's interesting 
 yeah so that's a that's a kind of an 
 interesting distinction so those who 
 really are dedicated that really doesn't 
 happen to them you would think it would 
 be it would uh be that's correct yeah 
 it's interesting that's correct so a a 
 possession usually never happens to 
 someone who is 
 completely in Christ right or in the 
 church 
 because the teachings say that you know 
 like when you're a Believer and you 
 believe like you sort of like you you um 
 you protect yourself from that God 
 protects you from evil God because you 
 are constantly saying like you know oh 
 God God whatever you know whatever you 
 know you pray to God and you sort of 
 like Shield yourself from Evil right but 
 when you're not like again when you're 
 like a foot in and foot out you almost 
 allow yourself to be an open gate for 
 bad things to come into you right well 
 that's a belief isn't it that's your 
 belief right maybe someone who who 
 sister so and so who's there every day 
 feels protected and these people who are 
 in and out say oh well yesterday I was 
 down at the bar and I did some bad 
 things and it seem like it seems like 
 that that level of belief is necessary 
 and I want to point out that this does 
 not just happen in Pentecostal religion 
 it actually happens worldwide and it 
 happens across religions and we see the 
 same thing we see we see both The 
 Possession happen I mean look in Middle 
 Eastern country countries tons of it in 
 um Islamic country where Jin possession 
 very common and you have to go visit an 
 Aman and and so we see the same sorts of 
 things and hear the same sort of reports 
 that most of them vast majority of these 
 cases are psychological or psychiatric 
 and there is a you can't when the cases 
 involve some sort of Supernatural 
 element you can't describe that you you 
 you don't know what to put you don't 
 know what category to put that in and 
 I'm going to link to I'm going to link 
 to uh both an article from a 
 psychiatrist who has dealt with these 
 Supernatural cases of possession and 
 kind of walks in both worlds and I'm 
 going to link to a scientific paper from 
 a more open-minded Journal it's a 
 journal of religion and health but they 
 really Advocate that for these cases 
 these specific cases you kind of have to 
 take a non-materialist point of view and 
 you have to take a non-materialist point 
 of view to heal the patient 
 mhm because it right it was The Exorcism 
 that ended up helping that woman yeah 
 well that it's super fascinating uh 
 thanks a lot for that uh for that 
 testimony that me that's just really 
 good stuff and you know what it opens up 
 a whole can of worms uh I think uh uh 
 next episode we had to tackle possession 
 and maybe just UFOs and religion what do 
 you think rah yeah let's let let's go 
 ahead and dive into the UFO and religion 
 thing I really did not want to do that I 
 mean this is already getting into creepy 
 territory right and then when you start 
 messing with people's religions you know 
 it's just a very dicey line to walk but 
 let's do it because it's it's 
 unavoidable right it is but you know 
 what there is a lot of people like me 
 out there in the world who are like what 
 you call EXP 
 Pentecostals um who also have 
 experienced this not just Pentecostals 
 but also like apostolics and other 
 religions you know denominations oh yeah 
 who are lots of other people who will 
 agree with like what you have to say and 
 like what you're putting out there well 
 there's an epidemic happening right now 
 a possession epidemic happening in in 
 Chile right now where kids are getting 
 possessed after dealing with Ouija 
 boards and they're they're going in and 
 they're having all sorts of they're 
 going to the hospital and they're 
 dehydrated and having all sorts of other 
 health 
 issues so if it's even if it's 
 psychological or what people want to 
 call Mass delusion which I do not 
 believe any Mass delusion event has ever 
 been proven that's a funny there's a 
 funny 
 fact there's a scientific fact that 
 there really is probably no such thing 
 as mass delusion so there's something 
 there it could you know but it's worth 
 study yeah I mean that that and just to 
 like give you some more context you know 
 after that it happened to that lady or 
 to this this young woman like you know 
 after eight eish years went by and none 
 of that ever happened to her again you 
 know oh wow interesting okay yeah yeah 
 so same thing with the guy nothing that 
 didn't happen to him again well that 
 seems important thank you for bringing 
 that up and thank you for everything 
 today yeah of course we really 
 appreciate having you on yeah thank you 
 so much for having me well I think that 
 wraps it up like you said next tune in 
 next uh episode we're going to tackle uh 
 UFOs and religion and uh that's about it 
 thanks everyone this is the 14 wins 
 podcast 
 [Music] 
 n