The Paranormal Virus: Skinwalker Ranch and the Hitchhiker Effect

We discuss the strange facet of the UFO phenomenon in which paranormal or anomalous events seem to follow witnesses to a UFO sighting.  It's very similar to stories of picking up evil spirits and demons from haunted places.  We dive into some of the more strange cases of these occurrences at Skinwalker Ranch and their possible connections to the phenomenon.

To read more about

The Hitchhiker Effect and

Skinwalker Ranch. 

Transcript

[Music] 
 hey everyone welcome to the Fortean Winds 
 podcast this is uh season two and I'm 
 Bones and with us as always is RamX hey 
 everybody hey ROM hey what we're going 
 to talk about is finally The Hitchhiker 
 effect we've been waiting to talk about 
 this for a long time and uh we'll we'll 
 and also before that we want to go into 
 some of the news uh so much news has 
 passed I mean yeah talking 
 about we been off for a minute yeah God 
 just a month seems like a 
 year right and there has been such a 
 plethora of news that has happened in 
 the UFO world it's being impossible to 
 cover all of it uh so we'll just hit the 
 highlights and the first one I guess 
 would be the those mummies I love the 
 mummies do should we call them mummies 
 or should we call them bodies it's hard 
 to say right but I I guess they're 
 mummified in in Peru but it was 
 presented to the Mexican Government 
 correct correct yeah so Hae masan who is 
 a well-known UFO researcher uh he's been 
 at it for a long time but he's also 
 somebody who takes in a lot of 
 information and has brought bodies up 
 before and the body has turned out to be 
 uh something that was more terrestrial 
 so Gary Nolan who is a s SST that we 
 mentioned on this show before has a 
 really fancy awesome machine that he 
 used to analyze the last body that came 
 through like this that was put forth by 
 Hae Manan right and uh it turned out to 
 be something that he thought was a human 
 with a birth defect and I have no real 
 reason to disbelieve him he's an expert 
 in this field so people who have said 
 that he was lying uh assume that he's 
 some sort of government plant but I 
 don't think his behavior or Research 
 indicates 
 that so I think the last time this 
 happened it turned out to be something 
 that was terrestrial and there's a bunch 
 of these weird cases that's worth 
 mentioning where Native Americans for 
 example there's a lot of cases where 
 there have been giant bones found right 
 yep there there's unusual amount um and 
 that doesn't mean that they were giants 
 it doesn't mean like but there is an 
 unusual amount that does INSP ire some 
 conspiracy stories and uh or conspiracy 
 ideas and that happens to to be a weird 
 so it it it also could be that people 
 who had birth defects or abnormalities 
 in birth were looked down as being 
 touched by God that sure pretty common 
 in ancient cultures right right so are 
 these mummies that or are they actual uh 
 otherworldly beings yeah I mean 
 personally I want to believe you know 
 it's just it's just it's such a perfect 
 story and even the presentation I'm a 
 sucker for this presentation the way 
 they have them in these boxes 
 those the three fingers I really want to 
 believe you know but I I can't there's 
 just so much more information that we 
 need but God it's it's validation 
 amazing I think it's what we'd all were 
 and you and I so we've been off for a 
 little bit and we but we discussed it 
 like when it happened and we both had 
 the same takeaway which is there's no 
 reason for this debate these are this is 
 material evidence it should go to a 
 third party lab Y and we should all make 
 the make the DNA results public we 
 should all be able to analyze it and and 
 that that's how we deal with this 
 phenomenon or that's how we should and 
 maybe this is this is a good way to 
 start but I know Peru was already 
 demanding them back yeah yeah and now 
 you mentioned that Peru doesn't have the 
 best track record with with being good 
 about sharing oh yeah that's that's true 
 um anyone who's even travel to Peru they 
 um you you you learn very quickly 
 because I think but the country is um 
 90% Native American I believe they're 
 they're super proud they are such a 
 proud people and proud Heritage uh when 
 they when when you go and and look at 
 some of these sites um if you go to like 
 Cusco the enormous rocks that are 
 stacked really high and all that they're 
 so proud of the Ingenuity that went into 
 that so any mention of any help from 
 some you know extraterrestrial being or 
 terrestrial being that's not human is 
 they they don't they see that as a 
 threat really so it's it's kind of hard 
 to interpret how the Peruvian government 
 responds to this stuff that's 
 interesting I mean that's a that's a 
 different cultural layer and and it's a 
 little one more reason to to look at 
 this with a fresh set of eyes because it 
 this could end up being that it it could 
 this could end up being the same type of 
 bodies that the government is in 
 possession of they do sort of match the 
 description um you know so we'll see I I 
 I think you and we should all be 
 demanding that these things go to a 
 third party lab and then we it's you 
 know Peru can do away with a little s Le 
 just a small little sample we don't need 
 to cut the head off the body oh speaking 
 of cutting the head off the body there 
 was a uh CAT scan done by the Mexican 
 scientists and doctors and found that 
 they are one 
 body oh yeah right when the event first 
 happened one of the quick accusations 
 was that it was a body that was stitched 
 together from other parts right I 
 remember that that's right and the 
 analysis that came back makes it appear 
 that it's not the cas case those are one 
 body so it's either something human and 
 unusual 
 or it's truly unusual yeah 
 right that interesting story it's just 
 there's just more to to hopefully we 
 hear um more you know hopefully it's a 
 developing story we don't have to wait 
 another eight years for some strange 
 presentation you know yeah I maybe this 
 is a good example of what we would like 
 this phenomenon study to become which is 
 it goes to an independent lab the 
 results are made public and then we 
 could all deal with it on our own I 
 think this phenomenon is so weird and we 
 should mention why we're calling this 
 season two and why season one was season 
 one is that I think season 1 gave 
 hopefully gave everyone an idea of a 
 general sense of the shape of this 
 phenomenon right yeah and we discussed 
 the various points of origin of the 
 phenomenon so so we could always refer 
 and say oh like we discussed in season 1 
 because in season 2 I think we're going 
 to get a little more specific and this 
 episode we're going to get more specific 
 and talk about the hitchhiker effect uh 
 which is when paranormal or UFO 
 experiences or anomalous experiences 
 follow someone who either was witnessed 
 to a UFO sighting or some other type of 
 anomalous event that first event was was 
 triggering and then the the most classic 
 example and the one most related to our 
 work is when someone Witnesses a UFO and 
 then goes home and has something 
 resembling Poltergeist activity you've 
 seen some cases like that right bones oh 
 yeah of course I mean that it seems to 
 be a pretty common theme where it's it's 
 it's it's hard to interpret what's 
 happening is it a Mees metaphysical 
 thing that's happening to them or are 
 they actually catching something right 
 so 
 maybe that Poltergeist activity is 
 representative of the being that was 
 driving the UFO and it just happens to 
 be invisible at the moment because we 
 have seen cloaking technology around 
 these UFOs some very interesting 
 cloaking technology that surrounds these 
 UFOs I think we have some ideas about 
 how that might work on a craft but there 
 are some cases where people say they 
 encountered a being that they they 
 always describe it the same way like the 
 predator in the 1980s you know Schwarz 
 and acor film okay predator and they 
 call it a predator style alien so there 
 are a number of these these reports 
 those are anecdotal take take them with 
 which means that they come with varying 
 levels of evidence associated with them 
 but there are absolutely some credible 
 evidence cases of people who say that 
 they encountered something that was 
 Predator like so that's important 
 because maybe what the these the 
 Poltergeist activity that they're 
 encountering is more is is the entity 
 itself right yeah sure so I mean that's 
 totally understandable I mean we we 
 could be talking about uh uh a whole 
 other dimension that's going on Parallel 
 to our ours and we just can't see right 
 we talked about the concept of a shadow 
 biosphere in season one and we talked 
 about dark matter and interdimensional 
 Concepts so dark matter and dark energy 
 is is one of the ways that we could have 
 something like an interdimensional or 
 Shadow 
 biosphere okay event happening and and 
 you know if dark dark matter makes up 
 more of the universe than regular matter 
 and we we can't even see it so if 
 there's a whole world in dark matter and 
 beings in Dark Matter intelligence in 
 dark matter they could be interacting 
 with us that way right so uh that could 
 be what The Hitchhiker effect is but I 
 think there's there's more to it than 
 that maybe the best way to tell you more 
 about the hitchhiker effect is to give 
 you an overview of the the most well 
 documented series of Hitchhiker effect 
 cases and those are really in 
 association with Skinwalker wrench and 
 many of you have probably heard of the 
 Skinwalker Ranch reality TV show which I 
 don't think does the ranch quite enough 
 justice as far as how important it's 
 been to Paranormal and UFO related 
 research the first thing I would want to 
 tell you about Skinwalker Ranch is that 
 it started as a UFO story The People the 
 Sherman family who owned the ranch prior 
 to the previous owners and the 
 government and the other billionaire 
 that used to own it the events that 
 followed them for years started with 
 UFOs so they witnessed UFOs and then 
 other things started happening they 
 started seeing Cryptids they started 
 seeing humanoid entities they started 
 seeing orbs maybe it's best for me to go 
 back to the beginning and just briefly 
 give you a history of Skinwalker Ranch I 
 will link to a couple of our articles in 
 in the description but it's necessary to 
 understand the history of the ranch so 
 that you can assess The credibility of 
 the evidence that I'm going to tell you 
 so the Shermans own the ranch Terry 
 Sherman and his wife and family were out 
 on the ranch and they started 
 encountering UFOs then they encountered 
 some of these things like humanoid 
 entities Cryptids 
 orbs the orbs killed some of their dogs 
 the phenomenon hid a couple of bulls on 
 their Ranch that they right remember 
 that story crazy we mentioned this 
 before yep yep that's a crazy story so 
 they had all of these other anomalous 
 experiences that we now have to 
 associate with UFOs and some of that 
 stuff is previously what we would call 
 paranormal and some of the Cryptids that 
 they saw especially have been previously 
 associated with paranormal so it's 
 important to note that all of this was 
 documented by scientists there's two 
 books that you can read about it uh that 
 are pretty good hunt for Skinwalker and 
 skinwalkers at the Pentagon they're both 
 written by George knp and colum ker who 
 was a scientist on The Ranch as well as 
 James laty who was a scientist on The 
 Ranch um you can find them everywhere 
 those two books will give you the the 
 the history of the ranch and I think nap 
 did a pretty good job of just covering 
 it this is such a crazy story I don't 
 even know how to 
 approach like gosh how do how do I say 
 this with 
 any maybe I'll just say that I just have 
 to kind of be casual about it so dude 
 I'm so glad this is season 2 because 
 this is such a crazy story we're about 
 to open the crazy I I think hopefully we 
 establish some 
 credibility hopefully we establish some 
 credibility season 1 so we can shoot it 
 all down season 
 two forward so I think the best example 
 in those books of The Hitchhiker effect 
 and then we'll just start talking more 
 about what the hitchhiker effect is is 
 that a group of analysts go to visit the 
 ranch so Terry Sherman and his family 
 they're encountering all this anomalous 
 activity some of it seems malevolent 
 there was incidents of maybe it being 
 giving off a benevolent feeling when 
 they were leaving the ranch they 
 mentioned so I I you know that that 
 indicates intelligence that indicates 
 something it's not always malevolent 
 sometimes it's benevolent I mean it 
 indicates intelligence so I think that's 
 important to mention and um they said 
 when they were leaving the ranch that 
 that this thing you know some sort of a 
 UFO came up came up to them and filled 
 them with this warm nice sensation and 
 then they sold the ranch to Bob Bigalow 
 who goes off and he gets a bunch of 
 scientists and they study the ranch for 
 a while and then they get into a 
 partnership with the US government to 
 study the ranch together and a group of 
 analysts go out there on one of the 
 earlier excursions and I think there was 
 five of them and they encounter some 
 sort of an energy or what they seemed to 
 think was maybe a portal it was some 
 sort of a black emptiness in space it 
 was giving off like a cold energy she 
 really read the books and learn more 
 about it but they encountered this 
 portal or object portal-like 
 object and they they did say that they 
 felt some sort of malevolence they did 
 not get a positive feeling from this 
 portal or door so they complete their 
 analysis of the ranch they go home and 
 probably the most drastic case happens 
 when one of the analysts goes home and 
 then he 
 redeploys to the Middle East because you 
 know he's he's a DOD analyst and he 
 redeploys and his family is at home and 
 they start encountering what people are 
 encountering at Skinwalker Ranch and 
 they're somewhere on the east coast in 
 like Virginia right and all a sudden the 
 two kids who I think were teenagers at 
 the time they start seeing uh a dog 
 man and in America we call The Wolf Man 
 a 
 Dogman right and in the south of America 
 they call it a 
 ruguru and in other places in Wisconsin 
 they call it a dog man it's called 
 different things all over in in Europe 
 it's called a werewolf I refuse to hide 
 from these names so we're gonna start 
 talking about Cryptids a lot in season 
 two and I refuse to hide from these 
 names because I think they're 
 important I think that the fact that 
 this thing appears as something that's 
 in our folklore is important and the 
 last paper I worked on was with the 
 famous folklorist and I don't 
 know whether or not this thing appearing 
 as something from our folklore is 
 because we believe in it as part of our 
 folklore or if we believe in it because 
 this thing gave us the idea for what's 
 in our for 
 right and I think that's a central 
 question there's many people in the 
 government who have been coming out 
 lately and saying look the government 
 doesn't really know how long this thing 
 has been here like that is a central 
 question if we can understand that the 
 relationship between this phenomenon and 
 our folklore it may give us an 
 indication of how long at least we've 
 been interacting with it right it's 
 embedded in our culture you just about 
 every culture right and it could be an 
 exchange where sometimes gave us the 
 idea for the dog man but then we took it 
 a little further and then it started 
 going oh well you like the longer ears 
 on the dog manand so I'll do the longer 
 ears it could be an exchange of ideas 
 and that it starts to seem like 
 something more of what we we see around 
 the phenomenon so um these Cryptids they 
 start showing up these kids see it and 
 then his wife sees it she got an imp a 
 malevolent impression off of it 
 that it was not giving her a very nice 
 friendly dog man store 
 stare it it was an angry dog man stare 
 yeah there was these crypted incidents 
 and then one of the kids in had an 
 incident where he was sleeping and he 
 was attacked by these blue orbs and they 
 left marks on him and you know all of 
 that was recorded and studied that's why 
 these these people were so important the 
 wife in this situation ended up having 
 some rare immunity issues like she was 
 attacked and and some of the symptoms 
 that they're describing and we talked 
 about this in season one about the 
 relationship between UAP and Havana 
 syndrome some of them it just sounds 
 like somewhere in the same range of 
 symptoms right um that this family was 
 describing so this is where it gets 
 super interesting not not not that all 
 of that isn't morbidly fascinating but 
 it gets extremely interesting when the 
 kids start going to school because kids 
 that they are in close contact with 
 start encountering the same thing oh yes 
 right it spreads like a 
 virus and that's super important and 
 this is where I am with my research 
 right now is trying to wrestle with this 
 idea there's something super important 
 here I've been in touch with one of the 
 top parapsychologists in the world on 
 this and he keeps saying what is your 
 point and I keep saying I don't 
 know I'm trying to tell you Jim I have 
 no idea but I think there's something 
 super important here because this is how 
 the phenomenon is making contact with 
 all these people and if you look at 
 their experiences if you look at the 
 experience of this wife and family and 
 the other analysts and some people close 
 to them had all of them who saw that 
 portal all had similar sort of anomalous 
 experiences follow them and also extend 
 to people that were near them so so they 
 encountered something really powerful 
 there and it infected them and then it 
 was able to infect other people around 
 it but look here's the really weird 
 thing about that story that I find super 
 fascinating is that whatever is there at 
 Skinwalker Ranch is there all the time 
 it's in the uent valley all the time I 
 don't think I care less about whether 
 it's at skin walker ranch or the 
 neighbor's house but it's in the uent 
 valley all the time in Utah and yet it 
 traveled it used that those analysts to 
 travel can it travel right right so this 
 is these things are super important I 
 think it may even this hitchhiker 
 phenomenon now now that we're discussing 
 it maybe I'll have more to say so this 
 phenomenon hits to ride with them and it 
 hits it hits to ride with them like a 
 virus and we've been calling it The 
 quantum virus and I think that that sort 
 of or the Paranormal virus and I think 
 that that that is about right there's 
 something about contact and it may be 
 contact with a physical object and then 
 afterwards that physical object or that 
 energy 
 somehow infecting you and one of the 
 theories by someone who has been on 
 Skinwalker Ranch and Dr Travis Taylor 
 Who's on all the TV shows he's done 
 separate interviews where this thing has 
 followed him home and he's had similar 
 stories happen to him and people close 
 to him and he's gone to the hospital 
 duee to this phenomenon for having been 
 irradiated so I think he understands 
 this and I I think he's legit and he is 
 was reluctant to even talk about this 
 hitchhiker effect because he doesn't 
 know what stimulates it and he said the 
 people that are affected don't know what 
 stimulate it meaning if you talk about 
 it if you believe in 
 it it may be able to 
 manifest that gets into the quantum 
 realm that get into our beliefs and its 
 p and our perception and its effect on 
 our 
 [Music] 
 [Music] 
 reality so he's an astrophysicist he's 
 been a government contractor he's been 
 on TV he's been very close to this 
 phenomenon and that is what his response 
 was is that maybe this involves 
 something to do with quantum 
 entanglement and once you get mixed up 
 with these things yeah I like that's 
 that's quantum entanglement now if we're 
 talking about quantum entanglement and 
 these entities are able to get mixed up 
 with you through quantum entanglement 
 and all of this uh sort of quantum 
 science it really sounds like we're 
 probably talking about something 
 interdimensional 
 right um or something in that ballpark 
 we go back there a lot so I go back 
 there a lot for sure you can't you can't 
 help it I mean it's just just the misch 
 we' mentioned this before in previous 
 episode it's just the 
 mischievous Behavior almost of of of 
 this phenomenon you know it's it's like 
 they're they're not toying with us 
 really but they they're always one step 
 ahead of everyone right and I think that 
 toying with that us is exactly what this 
 is doing I really like the analogy of 
 the Marco Polo game that you play in the 
 swimming pool okay and this is what 
 Skinwalker Ranch seems like to me you 
 know that where the kid has the 
 blindfold on and he's going Marco and 
 the other kids are all saying Polo and 
 they're all splashing him in the face 
 and you know getting in his face and 
 saying Polo and then get you know diving 
 out of the way and cheating and the kid 
 can't see that we're the kid we're the 
 in the blindfold you know right right 
 right whatever these things are is are 
 are the beings all around us and that's 
 really what it seems like at Skinwalker 
 Ranch that's what the government the 
 impression the government's got that's 
 why they gave up they sold the ranch to 
 a different billionaire you know and 
 said we're we're out because the thing 
 was just toying with them there's a 
 Colonel John Alexander is a pretty 
 important voice I think as far as 
 listening to someone on the phenomenon 
 and he is a scientist and a 
 soldier and he's also the one of the 
 guys that the George Clooney character 
 in The Men Who Stare at Goats movie if 
 anyone seen that although I think 
 Colonel John Alexander has a lot to say 
 about whether or not they were actually 
 trying to kill goats all that you could 
 look all that up but they were doing 
 remote viewing experiments so Colonel 
 John Alexander was doing remote viewing 
 experiments and that character that 
 George Clooney was based on he said was 
 based on an amalgam of several of the 
 people that were in the program but this 
 guy John Alexander went on to become 
 part of trying to build a new Army so 
 that at the end of Vietnam the US 
 government knew that the Army was broken 
 so they were open to these new ideas and 
 it was you know the 70s and all of a 
 sudden free love right and they were 
 like how do we get some of that into the 
 military so you know he went out and 
 looked into all sorts of Fringe stuff 
 and the stuff that worked of course the 
 military is interested in and he's ended 
 up on a ton of these projects and he's a 
 he's a very smart uh well spoken 
 intelligent guy um check out some of his 
 lectures he's given some lectures on to 
 muon that are very interesting so when 
 he talks about this phenomenon at 
 Skinwalker Ranch and he just he says the 
 same thing we do all the time which I 
 guess should make us feel good and 
 that's the government has no idea what 
 this 
 is this guy's been around government 
 work and this phenomenon for 30 years 
 now he's saying that so I I definitely 
 want to emphasize that not all of these 
 experiences are negative so James laty 
 who showed up at Skinwalker Ranch he 
 encountered a mobia 
 stripped which is a a mobia strip that's 
 a three dimens 
 representation of an Infinity object so 
 if you were to run along one side of the 
 Mobius strip you could run forever oh 
 okay okay I've heard of that and right 
 it it shows up a lot and I think the 
 fact that it shows up in science fiction 
 is important because when James latky 
 shows up to Skinwalker Ranch and he's 
 the one who's going to decide whether or 
 not to go back to the government and ask 
 for money for this 
 program he sees AIA strip 
 appear in front of him okay and then he 
 goes back and asks for funding to go 
 check out whatever this crazy thing is 
 and when you're showing somebody in a 
 mobus strip it also sort of indicates 
 that you understand the secrets of space 
 and 
 time these things aren't terribly honest 
 but they might so that got the 
 government interested and that wasn't a 
 bad experience so these things pick and 
 choose their targets and the experiences 
 are different and we've asked this 
 question question before but I think 
 it's worth asking again because it's 
 something I want to keep exploring and 
 that's are they different entities is 
 that why they're good or bad experiences 
 or are these all intended effects like 
 the effect on latsky was at an intended 
 effect right right but this it it 
 brought the government out to the 
 ranch right effect on these analist then 
 was the opposite it was like oh but 
 you're not welcome here yeah or was 
 sending mixed messages with 
 intent yeah it's hard to say it's really 
 hard to say but understanding that is 
 really important because I think there's 
 there's a couple of things that you have 
 to understand in intelligence analysis 
 and that's capabilities and intent and 
 right now we've talked about a lot of 
 the capabilities in season 1 in fact 
 that was our focus and we said we think 
 we should call these things 
 ultraterrestrial because it's really an 
 indication of their capabilities the 
 point of origin is almost irrelevant 
 when it comes to are they good or bad 
 for us right and then there's intent and 
 as we've said the intent is mixed so 
 either the but I I don't think that that 
 means that it's open-ended I think it 
 either means that the intent is mixed 
 because that mixed intent is trying to 
 create a narrative or a societal 
 effect or we're just dealing with 
 different entities 
 we're dealing with multiple 
 intelligences and they have different 
 attitudes towards us yeah it could be I 
 mean it's it seems that way for sure 
 really if you think about it so all of 
 this stuff at Skinwalker Ranch and all 
 of this UFO stuff and this is where 
 things get uncomfortable and 
 controversial and we move from being 
 science-based to being called loons 
 except we shouldn't because that's why 
 we did season one because everything 
 that we're going to tell you now should 
 be covered yeah um right when we started 
 talking about these Cryptids I mean if 
 we're talking about something that's 
 interdimensional we talked about how 
 things can be subjective and objective 
 so yeah it's a crypted yeah it's a 
 Bigfoot so what I mean it could have 
 been a 12 foot Teenage Mutant Ninja 
 Turtle if this thing wanted it doesn't 
 matter so we're not telling you that 
 Bigfoot exists we're telling you that 
 something can do be whatever it wants to 
 be and if it wanted to be a Bigfoot for 
 10 years it probably could yeah and it's 
 always one step ahead doesn't matter 
 where you are yeah yeah but they're 
 everywhere but they're everywhere and so 
 this is where it gets really 
 controversial right because we are going 
 to absolutely be connecting UFOs to 
 Cryptids we're going to absolutely be 
 connecting UFOs to guls or Poltergeist 
 like Behavior because all of this 
 hitchhiker like effect Stuff shows up in 
 paranormal research 
 we've talked a lot about the science of 
 UFOs because I think it's the easiest 
 for people to digest when I first got 
 into this all of this I had to come in 
 through UFOs because I'm a technologist 
 and I wasn't going to believe anything 
 else except for that there was something 
 in the sky that flew that I I didn't 
 understand that I could believe I 
 couldn't believe any of the other stuff 
 right 
 so I think that that's the best path is 
 that you come in through UFOs but once 
 you understand that the everything that 
 we've told you about UFOs and just like 
 we've talked about with this hitchhiker 
 effect there are identical Studies by 
 scientists by professionals by 
 parapsychologists by psychologists who 
 point to the fact that all of these 
 hitchhiker like effects happen with 
 paranormal stuff as 
 well haunted areas people pick up 
 entities at haunted locations the same 
 way somebody picked up an entity at 
 Skinwalker Ranch Skinwalker Ranch is a 
 UFO story does that mean all haunted 
 places are related to the same 
 phenomenon we don't know but I'll tell 
 you just because that's a scary question 
 doesn't mean it's not a great question 
 it's a great question and I'm not going 
 to hide from it but you almost have to 
 hide from it when you're doing this kind 
 of UFO research because there are people 
 who don't like peanut butter in their 
 chocolate they don't want or chocolate 
 Clinton or peanut butter so all of 
 Skinwalker Ranch by those people gets 
 called you know the the the cuu fun 
 house of of dog man wolf man you know oh 
 those people are all crazy and they're 
 all science ghost stories for scientists 
 you could think whatever the hell you 
 want but there are great scientists 
 who've done very good research on ghosts 
 specifically yeah that have nothing to 
 do with UFOs so the connection between 
 those 
 these locations and their 
 research I'm not going to ignore just 
 because people find that controversial 
 of course not we're fortan it's exactly 
 what we do that's 
 right to Fort 
 har a little nod to the Papa it's good 
 to bring up Fort because Fort figured 
 this out 100 years ago he said all of 
 this stuff is related and Fort seemed to 
 think that we are property something 
 else is here and it owns us and we're 
 part of its game right it's not so 
 dissimilar from what John Keel decided 
 at the end of his research too it kind 
 of looks like that but I think that that 
 maybe is an easy out I don't think we're 
 going to end there no it's not a it's 
 not a a predator and prey situation I 
 don't think it no it seems more like a 
 resource yeah seems like we're a 
 resource you know you're a fine resource 
 has anyone ever told you that me me I 
 appreciate that I think absolutely 
 there's a lot of you oh I mean I do you 
 know we could oh they could eat for 
 months yeah I'm storing a lot of 
 energy there's some scientists studying 
 this there's parapsychologist studying 
 this there's a great organization called 
 The Society for scientific exploration 
 and it includes a lot of very reputable 
 credible scientists professors who are 
 willing to study stuff like this and 
 they publish in the Journal of 
 scientific 
 exploration and the editor of that 
 journal as well as a assistant editor 
 put together a massive haunted person 
 study and as part of that study what 
 they found were that there's four core 
 features of haunted people syndrome that 
 the meaning or narrative around a 
 haunted experience is influenced by 
 personal backgrounds or beliefs or 
 personality that's number one and we 
 kind of just talked about that like this 
 phenomenon is subjective and objective 
 so this sort of talking about the 
 subjective part again this seems very 
 UFO related here the second thing is 
 that anxiety and distress regarding 
 hauntings are a function of the nature 
 and closeness of the anomalous 
 experience then third distress and 
 unease make an anomalous experience more 
 likely to occur a lot of this stuff gets 
 reported in UFO cases one of the things 
 that comes up a lot in UFO research and 
 paranormal research that they say a lot 
 is Lial that people are in a Lial state 
 which means a state of 
 change and that brings on distress and 
 unease your life's all shifting and all 
 a sudden this shows up in the middle of 
 it and this happens a lot this happens a 
 lot paranormal and UFO cases so that's 
 weird um and it indicates that there's 
 we also talked about the relationship 
 between this UFO phenomenon and 
 Consciousness it indicates something 
 something on a deeper level is happening 
 here and then the last thing that they 
 found which is most important to this 
 hitchhiker effect phenomenon is that 
 anomalous experiences tend to be 
 contagious they can spread to 
 others extremely important so one of the 
 ancient examples of this that was a big 
 concern was possession and demons right 
 sure people thought somebody got 
 possessed by a demon oh you know and 
 then the priest could get it out of them 
 and it would go into somebody else right 
 and possession is now part of the DSM 
 and considered a official mental health 
 condition oh and then interes yeah it's 
 fascinating then people fought for that 
 for a long time because it it does 
 happen and and there's a lot written 
 about why it happens 
 psychologically but then you go well is 
 there cases of Supernatural possession 
 are there cases of UFO 
 possession uh the answer according to 
 our research is yes um both uh the 
 certainly not most of them I think that 
 the psychology of possession is 
 fascinating but we're not psychiatrists 
 so what really interests us as fors is 
 well did anything move around well it 
 happened right um and so yeah we looked 
 around and we did find some of that and 
 we actually found somebody who 
 experienced that with multiple Witnesses 
 and met all of our standard of evidence 
 so I think we're going to have our first 
 guest on for and wins yeah that's great 
 I look forward to that yeah that should 
 be this will probably be our most 
 popular episode ever too right so he 
 said so he had he's had an experience of 
 possession so this person was not 
 possessed 
 they have witnessed a possession they 
 witnessed an 
 exorcism and they are also an 
 experiencer so we'll talked to this 
 person about some of the experiences 
 that followed them and run in their 
 family and that's also very interesting 
 to me is that experiencers lifelong 
 experiencers which we've already 
 mentioned that this runs in families 
 that this phenomenon and these anomalous 
 experiences tend to run in families so 
 we say it's it like likely points to a 
 genetic component and here we are 
 looking at something that seems more 
 viral and that's fascinating to me I 
 think that that's there's there's 
 probably a link there you know we could 
 be looking at something that is just 
 that easy right is it's just a virus um 
 I don't think it is that easy or a 
 mindworm perhaps ooh 
 mindworm good one to talk to following 
 up on this hitchhiker effect Affair so 
 if you'd like to know more about the 
 hitchhiker phenomenon check out our 
 article The Hitchhiker effect the 
 Paranormal virus I would also recommend 
 the hunt for Skinwalker and skinwalkers 
 at the Pentagon those will be our media 
 recommendations for this time around 
 yeah I think the article on our website 
 uh would be a really great introduction 
 too so if this is all new to you I would 
 go to the website for sure and read that 
 article yeah I guess you know we didn't 
 plan this but this possession episode is 
 coming right up on Halloween isn't it oh 
 yeah perfect timing that's going to be 
 fun that should be great I don't even 
 know that it's Halloween 14s are spooky 
 all year yeah 
 right so hey that's great I I can't I 
 can't wait it's going to be fun uh it's 
 great talking to you R thanks for this 
 episode this is season two everyone uh 
 get ready strap in yeah I'm excited for 
 season two we're going to talk about 
 some crazy stuff I mean we start with 
 the hit cheer effect and then we're 
 going to go into possession and then 
 we'll probably just Dive Right into 
 Cryptids all of them I'm ready let's get 
 let's get nuts let's go all right 
 everyone thanks for listening all right 
 see you 
 [Music] 
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